Famous Guests

[gilberto_eire]

Mike Channon had one very brief appearence in a Harps jersey in 1986.

He lasted 50mins in a 2-2 draw against Cobh in a League Cup game, before an old ankle injury got the better of him.

He returned to England a few days later.

That Mick Channon footballer turned horse-racing trainer?

[Mr A]

Yip, the same dude.

[Red&White Rover]

Socrates...I'm certain I read somewhere he was going to play with some LOI club (possibly UCD) but the then manager wouldn't play him, because he wouldn't stop smoking?

[Dodge]

Socrates...I'm certain I read somewhere he was going to play with some LOI club (possibly UCD) but the then manager wouldn't play him, because he wouldn't stop smoking?

Total rubbish

[Red&White Rover]

Total rubbish

Valuable input, thank you for your evidently, very important opinion. People must listen to you.

I'm certain, that I read a quote from the manager on this. Socrates may have been studying at the time?

Just seems a bit abstract to be made up.

[Dodge]

Socrates has never ever ever played for an Irish team, managed an irish team, or formally been approached by an Irish team

But believe whatever bull**** you like

[Red&White Rover]

Socrates has never ever ever played for an Irish team, managed an irish team, or formally been approached by an Irish team

You were his agent so?

Apparently he did his degree (or part of it) at the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin.

[Red&White Rover]

Before he became a doctor (and a famous footballer) Brazilian footballer Socrates apparently spent some of his student years in Dublin. My memory is hazy but I think I was told that while there he played for University College Dublin (UCD) in the FAI Cup, or it could have been that he only managed to make the UCD reserve team. Is there any truth to these unlikely stories? if so, maybe that's where he picked up his smoking habit", writes Colman Walsh

Amazingly enough Colman, you're right. "Socrates did play for UCD, but it was way, way back, sometime in the 70s." says Brendan McKenna of the Football Association of Ireland. "He was an attraction at the time, but it was before he played for the Brazilian team. He wouldn't have played much more than a season." That's confirmed by Gerry Callan of the Irish Star, who says he thinks Socrates did play for UCD, but only for the reserves on Saturday's as the first team played on Sunday, and he didn't want to play then.

More information about Socrates playing for UCD reserves in the 1970s. According to Paul McDonnell, Scorates only played a couple of games because the coach and manager at the time, Dr Terry O'Neill, insisted that he quit smoking. Socrates refused and instead quit the team

So how do you like your humble pie then Dodge?

Evidently there's more to this story then being "absolute rubbish" as you suggested.

[DmanDmythDledge]

You were his agent so?

Apparently he did his degree (or part of it) at the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin.

Have a look at this. About 3/4 of the way down...

Question:
(06 April 2003) Dear Alex,

Just reading your brilliant book, thank you for such a fascinating glimpse of Brazil. It really reflects what Simon Kuper wrote about football being one of the best ways to understand the daily life of a country.

I have two enquiries. Firstly about Socrates - I have often heard the urban legend that he was a medical student here in Ireland. I've heard two versions of the story - in one he was studying for a time in the Royal College of Surgeons, asked one day if there was any football around and was sent out to play with Bohemians reserves. The other has him in my own alma mater University College Dublin and winning the Collingwood Cup, an inter collegiate football tournament while here. I would be very grateful if you could tell me if there is any truth to either story.

Secondly, a common story here in Ireland is that Pele's nickname derives from "peile", the Gaelic for football (more usually the Gaelic version), which Irish nuns gave the young Edson. I know in the book you write that the origin of Pele is unknown, and I recall Pele in interviews saying he didn't know himself, but just another theory you mightn't have heard before.
Finally, its only polite to tell you that I write occasional articles for the Irish medical press, I was thinking of maybe pitching a brief one about your book focusing on the Socrates angle.

Thanks

Seamus Sweeney
seamus.sweeney@campus.ie

Response:
I never realized that Brazilian football had such an Irish connection!

Both are delightful stories and I wish they were both true....

So I emailed Socrates and asked him. He replied: "I've never been to Dublin."

Then I emailed Pepito Fornos, who has worked with Pel? for decades.

He wrote: "The explanation makes no sense at all. It's absurd".

"There is only one explanation - Pel?'s dad, Dondinho, played for a team in Bauru, in Sao Paulo State, whose goalie was called Bil?. Pel?, aged eight, when he messed around in goal in the streets, said he was Bil? - and his friends thought he was saying Pel?. The name stuck, even though Pel? didn?t like it, but he got used to it."

So that's the official line - although I'm sure new explanations for Pel?'s name will carry on appearing as will stories from Socrates' past.

[Red&White Rover]

I can't deny that obviously, but I do find it hard to believe that such a story can substantiate out of nothing?

THere's no smoke without fire etc...

[DmanDmythDledge]

There's plenty of myths about him playing in Ireland. Many of the stories contradict each other, which I think further proves that it is just some form of Chineese whispers.

This is actually article written about it, but can not be true as Socrates played for Botafogo during the time he was apparantly in Ireland. It was written though before the information in the link I gave above was found.

[Dodge]

I can't deny that obviously, but I do find it hard to believe that such a story can substantiate out of nothing?

THere's no smoke without fire etc...

Now, about that humble pie...

Its been done to death 100s of times of this and other message boards. He's never even been to Ireland. Case closed?

[drummerboy]

Barry Bridges played for Pats for a few years.
Jimmy Johnstone played with Shels but spent most of his time in Leeson Street. There was another ex Celtic player with Shels at the time.

[pineapple stu]

The Socrates thing is nonsense.

Funnily enough, it appeared on UTV Teletext in an "Ask The Gaffer" kind of piece. They contacted the FAI, who said it was true. Muppets.

[gspain]

There are other urban myths

Panathanaikos wear green and have the shamrock as their emblem because they were founded by an Irishman. Not true they are as Irish as Celtic.

Germany wear green as their 2nd strip because we were the first country to play them after the war. Not true

[monutdfc]

I bought a fanzine at a Shels game about 5 years ago with a great article on all these guest appearances. It wasn't a Shel's fanzine, just some football history buff production. I'll see if I can dig it out (unlikely!), but someone might have seen the same thing.

Dug it out - it's called League of Ireland Trainspotter, volume 2. There's a contact name and address on the front, PM me and I'll give you the details

[Dodge]

Barry Bridges played for Pats for a few years.

Player manager, and then just manager

[geysir]

I went see Bobby Charlton at Dalymount, Bohs V Waterford.
He wasn't fit as if he hadn't played at all for a year but still showed some class. Near the end, out of the blue he scored after he hit a scorcher from distance.
I only remember him playing one game in the LOI.
Stigonline has him playing a bit and scoring once. But all other records have him playing for a season for Waterford and scoring 16 goals.

[Calcio Jack]

Most of the others before my time but most older Pats fans talk about a save banks made against Rovers being better than the "one" v Pele in 1970[/QUOTE]

I was at the game and can vouch for that...it's still for me is the best save I'ver ever seen..what was even more impressive was the fact that Banks had retired a few years previousely because of injuries sustained to one of his eyes in a car crash and the damaged eye had little vision.... the ground was packed... Pat's won 1-0 although Rovers were the better team (honestly) and the save was from a rocket volley from none other than Eamon Dunphy at the shed end.

[stann]

I went see Bobby Charlton at Dalymount, Bohs V Waterford.
He wasn't fit as if he hadn't played at all for a year but still showed some class. Near the end, out of the blue he scored after he hit a scorcher from distance.
I only remember him playing one game in the LOI.
Stigonline has him playing a bit and scoring once. But all other records have him playing for a season for Waterford and scoring 16 goals.

Stigonline is right, to the best of my knowledge.
Bobby only played a handful of games (4 is the number in my head) and scored maybe the once. I think I can check that fairly definitively later on today, but there's no way it was a full season and 16 goals is miles off!