10 team league. Good or bad idea?

**passerrby** · 15/07/2008, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

Personally I think the country has too far too few eloi clubs for two divisions to be run out of. I would like to see a 16 team premier and maybe 2 eight team divisions in the first. say a north and south or east/west to go easy on their travel expenses. Or if not then a 22 team league for 5 years and see how it gets on.

think this is a good idea with one team dropping out until sixteen are left then two well run regional leagues with no massive fines, no licensing and no fai buracuary to frighten potential new teams , only when they get promoted should all the crap kick in.
I believe the majority of clubs and supporters want something along these lines.

**Macy** · 15/07/2008, 1:31 PM

Not sure I'd go with regional leagues on reflection - an expanded first with 3 up 3 down from the premier to sit below the premier. I'd go a straight 3 down from the premier and have the play offs 3-6 of the first. It would give clubs a realistic chance of promotion (which is one of the major issues in the first imo - too many clubs start off knowing they haven't a hope of promotion), and also give relegated clubs a realistic chance of bouncing back so no need to spend crazy to survive.

**holidaysong** · 15/07/2008, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Not sure I'd go with regional leagues on reflection - an expanded first with 3 up 3 down from the premier to sit below the premier. I'd go a straight 3 down from the premier and have the play offs 3-6 of the first. It would give clubs a realistic chance of promotion (which is one of the major issues in the first imo - too many clubs start off knowing they haven't a hope of promotion), and also give relegated clubs a realistic chance of bouncing back so no need to spend crazy to survive.

I agree that more promotion spots are needed. Next year in a 12 team first division there will only be one automatic promotion spot. If the premier division team win the playoff, then one club getting promoted from 12 is just not enough!

**redobit** · 15/07/2008, 1:56 PM

-When will the FAI realise that the big clubs need the small clubs.
-In the short term a 10 team professional league would be fantastic for irish football. The League of ireland/ FAI might get a team into the Champions league groups and everybody would say 'look how far irish football has progressed' well done ye!
-In the long term the league would become predictable, repetitive and thus boring. And when the 'power league', due to its uniformity, starts to falter and expansion is needed there will a short list of clubs to choose from as they will either have gone bust or now not have the finanical clout to make an impression as they will have rotted away in the pit that is the first division.

**passerrby** · 15/07/2008, 2:01 PM

am not sure promotion should start right away ,for the first five years there should be great prize money to allow clubs to build for the time when they are capable of maintaining a premiership team/club without fear of overspending and falling foul of licensing. there can be relagation from the premiership to get to the 16 team. one thing i heard over the years is this "a rising tide lifts all boats" that was a margeret tatcher philosipy and it was only good for the big boats.

**ndrog** · 15/07/2008, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Cans on the way down? Its a long ould drive.

I flew actually .Were you actually at the game or are you just churning out the usual pathethic cliches we hear from Cork city fans all the time ?

**SMorgan** · 15/07/2008, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Play your games on something more reasonable than a Thursday and you'll get away fans coming to Oriel. About time the FAI put an end to the farce of allowing Dundalk dictate when they want to play

Here we are discussing poor attendances and ways of increasing crowds and you want to remove the flexibility that has allowed one club to maintain a reasonable level of support. Dundalk have tried Friday, Saturday and Sunday kickoffs only to revert back to thursdays each time. This "it doesn't suit away support" is a proven load of bull.

**jebus** · 15/07/2008, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by SMorgan

Here we are discussing poor attendances and ways of increasing crowds and you want to remove the flexibility that has allowed one club to maintain a reasonable level of support. Dundalk have tried Friday, Saturday and Sunday kickoffs only to revert back to thursdays each time. This "it doesn't suit away support" is a proven load of bull.

Oh I'm sorry, for you see when the Dundalk fan I replied to you, the one complaining about there never being any away fans in Oriel, said that there is never any away fans at Oriel I took is as being true. What figures do you have to prove that he was either a) lying, or b) that it hasn't affected away support

**jinxy lilywhite** · 16/07/2008, 7:34 AM

Originally Posted by jebus

Play your games on something more reasonable than a Thursday and you'll get away fans coming to Oriel. About time the FAI put an end to the farce of allowing Dundalk dictate when they want to play

What ya on about. We've alway played on a thursday night for the last 15 years actually even more. I was at the Limerick game when ye guys played and there wasn't even 10 Limerick supporters. Thats even including your substitutes and you didn't have much more in your home tie as well. For a so called "sport mad city" they don't get behind their home soccer team.
Anyteam can object to the scheduling of their away games. Cobh went for years having us play in Oriel on a Sunday Afternoon.

Originally Posted by jebus

Oh I'm sorry, for you see when the Dundalk fan I replied to you, the one complaining about there never being any away fans in Oriel, said that there is never any away fans at Oriel I took is as being true. What figures do you have to prove that he was either a) lying, or b) that it hasn't affected away support

Thursday night matches have no affect on away support. The teams we play in the first have no travelling support(with the exception of Shelbourne). As was point out earlier by one of my brethern we did try to move our home games to Friday and Saturday night and the home attendences dropped. Away gates never increased as a result.

**Macy** · 16/07/2008, 7:59 AM

No way it's 15 years since Dundalk moved to Thursdays, and the reasoning at the time was to be able to hold birthday parties in the bar, nothing to do with it attracting more fans.

**jebus** · 16/07/2008, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

What ya on about. We've alway played on a thursday night for the last 15 years actually even more. I was at the Limerick game when ye guys played and there wasn't even 10 Limerick supporters. Thats even including your substitutes and you didn't have much more in your home tie as well. For a so called "sport mad city" they don't get behind their home soccer team.
Anyteam can object to the scheduling of their away games. Cobh went for years having us play in Oriel on a Sunday Afternoon.

Two questions though, what game did we play with 10 people watching, including substitutes? And what home game were you at that we barely had more than 10 people?

Posts like yours almost make me happy Galway were promoted ahead of Dundalk

**Louth4sam** · 16/07/2008, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by jebus

Posts like yours almost make me happy Galway were promoted ahead of Dundalk

I know you don't mean that!

Yes it is true that we moved to Thursdays to make use of the club bar for functions. So what? Its much needed revenue for the club. I know this doesnt suit away fans it doesnt even suit me as i live in Dublin but we have to do whats best for Dundalk FC and that's what we're doing.
What Jinxy said is true though, of all the days we've tried Thursdays do get the best home attendance with away attendance not really affected with what day its held.

**jebus** · 16/07/2008, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Louth4sam

I know this doesnt suit away fans it doesnt even suit me as i live in Dublin but we have to do whats best for Dundalk FC and that's what we're doing.

I really don't care what Dundalk need to do for money, I just take issue with Dundalk fans coming on here mouthing about their being no away support in the First Division when their club actively go out of their way to make it harder for away supporters to get to a game

**srfc1928** · 16/07/2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by redobit

-When will the FAI realise that the big clubs need the small clubs.
-In the short term a 10 team professional league would be fantastic for irish football. The League of ireland/ FAI might get a team into the Champions league groups and everybody would say 'look how far irish football has progressed' well done ye!
-In the long term the league would become predictable, repetitive and thus boring. And when the 'power league', due to its uniformity, starts to falter and expansion is needed there will a short list of clubs to choose from as they will either have gone bust or now not have the finanical clout to make an impression as they will have rotted away in the pit that is the first division.

I agree, by creating a 10 team premier were only widening the gulf between the bigger and smaller clubs. Maybe some short term gains, but not good for the league in the long term

**Louth4sam** · 16/07/2008, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

I really don't care what Dundalk need to do for money, I just take issue with Dundalk fans coming on here mouthing about their being no away support in the First Division when their club actively go out of their way to make it harder for away supporters to get to a game

Well there is no away support in the first division, doesn't matter what day of the week you hold a game. If we held games on a Friday do you think that away attendances would shoot up? How many away fans do limerick get at their home matches playing on a Friday night (apart from Dundalk and Shels)?
I'd be surprised if anybody in the first division other than Shels would bring more than 50 supporters to Dundalk no matter what day or time we played our matches.

**Stevo Da Gull** · 16/07/2008, 2:20 PM

I really hate the ten team league, it's too small IMO. Four times a season is too much and I don't see see any short or long-term benefits in terms of finances or attendances or anything but they can just keep on making this league harder to support... it's not like attendances can get a great deal worse.

**holidaysong** · 16/07/2008, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stevo Da Gull

I really hate the ten team league, it's too small IMO. Four times a season is too much and I don't see see any short or long-term benefits in terms of finances or attendances or anything but they can just keep on making this league harder to support... it's not like attendances can get a great deal worse.

The average attendance in the premier divison probably will go up next year (especially if UCD go down) but it will only be because of getting rid of the weaker teams. It's very likely that either ourselves or Shels will go up increasing the average due to level of support for both teams. The FAI will then turn around and tell people how great they are.

At the same time, the first division will be bigger than ever and clubs that would have struggled to gain support, will be in a worse position stuck in the graveyard. The 10 team league is just a way for the self professed 'elite clubs' to close off the premier divison to other clubs.

We should be trying to spread premier divison football to other areas of the coutry by increasing the number of clubs in the division, not decreasing them!

**Stevo Da Gull** · 16/07/2008, 2:30 PM

Fair point, there are short-term benefits but as you say no long-term benefits... maybe in 3 or 4 years they will switch back to 12 teams or they'll just go for the middle ground with an eleven team league.

**Mr A** · 16/07/2008, 2:36 PM

The 10 team league is just a way for the self professed 'elite clubs' to close off the premier divison to other clubs.

Nail on the head. Certain clubs feel they shouldn't have to lower themselves to play the likes of UCD, Cobh and Harps. That is the driving motivation behind the 10 team premier.

**micls** · 16/07/2008, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Nail on the head. Certain clubs feel they shouldn't have to lower themselves to play the likes of UCD, Cobh and Harps. That is the driving motivation behind the 10 team premier.

The FAI are in charge now, not the clubs. It's up to them whether we go to a 10 team premier or not, its up to them to make sure its the best decision, even if it means upsetting the 'big' clubs.

I still think 10 is better than 12 though, the 3 games thing wrecks my head