Euro 2008: Lessons for Ireland?

[Stuttgart88]

Lessons for Ireland from Euro 2008?


- The quality of centre back play & especially pairings of CBs, was poor. Teams overcame this by placing emphasis on attack. Maybe we're not as bad in the CB department as we thought. Dunne + O'Shea or O'Brien?
- Overlapping, attacking full backs was a major theme. This means having right footers at RB and left footers at LB.
- Width came primarily from full back play. I generally wasn't impressed by the quality of "traditional" wide play in this tournament, bar a couple of exceptions. Our wide players could have more than held their own in many of the teams at this tournament.
- Emphasis on passing & technique. Very few teams depended on speculative passing like we do. Full backs didn't chip the ball forward up the line like it's a reflex action. CBs passed the ball to full backs or midfielders far more often than they luanched it forward. The phrase "playing it down the channels" probably doesn't exist outside the English language.
- 4-4-2 looks tired and mono-dimensional. 4-2-3-1 appears to be gaining popularity & adaptability was they key. Ability to score from midfield is obviously important in this context.
- Balance in midfield: you need a good ball winner with a good ball user. Do we have either?
- Our first 2 goalkeepers are as good as anyone's.
- There's no place for mega egos in a successful tournament team. Nor is there a place for shortarses.
- My long held mantra about the impotance of set pieces didn't really hold true in Euro 2008, bar maybe Germany vs. Portugal. An anomaly?

Anyway, the lessons for doing well in a finals don't necessarily hold for getting through qualification.

I loved almost every minute of this tournament. This is what the lawmakers had in mind when outlawing rash tackles etc. in the 90s. Finally technique has won out over muscularity though in the back of my mind I couldn't help feel that a team like the Ivory Coast could have eaten up some of the more entertaining teams here with a combination of both.

[Razors left peg]

Lessons for Ireland from Euro 2008?


- The quality of centre back play & especially pairings of CBs, was poor. Teams overcame this by placing emphasis on attack. Maybe we're not as bad in the CB department as we thought. Dunne + O'Shea or O'Brien?
- Overlapping, attacking full backs was a major theme. This means having right footers at RB and left footers at LB.
- Width came primarily from full back play. I generally wasn't impressed by the quality of "traditional" wide play in this tournament, bar a couple of exceptions. Our wide players could have more than held their own in many of the teams at this tournament.
- Emphasis on passing & technique. Very few teams depended on speculative passing like we do. Full backs didn't chip the ball forward up the line like it's a reflex action. CBs passed the ball to full backs or midfielders far more often than they luanched it forward. The phrase "playing it down the channels" probably doesn't exist outside the English language.
- 4-4-2 looks tired and mono-dimensional. 4-2-3-1 appears to be gaining popularity & adaptability was they key. Ability to score from midfield is obviously important in this context.
- Balance in midfield: you need a good ball winner with a good ball user. Do we have either?
- Our first 2 goalkeepers are as good as anyone's.
- There's no place for mega egos in a successful tournament team. Nor is there a place for shortarses.
- My long held mantra about the impotance of set pieces didn't really hold true in Euro 2008, bar maybe Germany vs. Portugal. An anomaly?

Anyway, the lessons for doing well in a finals don't necessarily hold for getting through qualification.

I loved almost every minute of this tournament. This is what the lawmakers had in mind when outlawing rash tackles etc. in the 90s. Finally technique has won out over muscularity though in the back of my mind I couldn't help feel that a team like the Ivory Coast could have eaten up some of the more entertaining teams here with a combination of both.

Cant agree with that,Spain werent a very big team and they managed fine against more athletic sides. Plus Modric and Arshavin had good tournament and are small even compared to our lads

[Wolfie]

One of the best tournaments in living memory.

The importance of "team ethic" and commitment to the cause was a recurring theme. The Spanish, the Turks and their resiliance and full blooded determination and also the heartbroken Croats after defeat.

If Ireland can regain and adopt tactics to be "better than the sum of our parts" we'll be a far better proposition with immediate effect.

Yet again - Centre Midfield (our lack of) troubles me greatly.

[Stuttgart88]

Point taken Razor to an extent but I wouldn't classify the Spanish guys as shortarses though - certainly not in the Miller / Ireland mould - but I accept they're smaller than the Germans or the Czechs etc. The likes of Xavi, Inista etc are athletically a match for most opponents. I thought Germany only prevailed over Portugal due to their height in the end. Modric & Arshavin were surrounded by tall players. What I should have said is that there is no place for a team of shortarses!

I'd also add something I read in one of the papers, which contradicts one of my other comments: no longer is it sufficient just to have a Makelele like ball winner. A ball wining midfielder needs to be able to use it well too. The "Makelele role" has become a well worn phrase in English football. Perhaps the benchmark for that position should now be replaced with the "Senna role".

[Reality Bites]

A truly brillant Team Won the tournament! Its hard not to get into Hyberbole when you think of the quality of Player at Spains Disposal, - Xavi, Senna, Torres, Fabregas, Villa etc not to mention their outstanding Keeper, only shame is they didn't hammer in a few more past Lehman just to give emphasis to their brillance! The thought did cross mind though a country as political diverse as Spain, did this Victory go down as well as it did in Madrid in say Bilbao or Barcelona?

[tetsujin1979]

I think some of the teams in the tournament have completely dispensed with a dedicated "holding midfielder". Russia, Spain, Holland, all played with ball-winning midfield players, who can play with the ball instead of just firing off an immediate pass. Russia and Holland seemed to have the entire midfield either attack, or defend as a single unit. Working together to regain possession, then moving up the pitch with 3 or four options available for passes to move in to the last third of the pitch.
With McGeady having put emphasis on the defensive side of his game over the last 2 seasons, and Duff having it beaten into him at Chelsea, I think we could adapt to this fairly easily. But this (like so many other things at the moment) will depend on the 2 Reids staying fit and in first team football this season.

BTW that sound you can hear is eirebhoy's world collapsing around his ears. Where is he these days anyway?

[Dr. Ogba]

Lessons for Ireland from Euro 2008?
- Emphasis on passing & technique. Very few teams depended on speculative passing like we do. Full backs didn't chip the ball forward up the line like it's a reflex action. CBs passed the ball to full backs or midfielders far more often than they luanched it forward. The phrase "playing it down the channels" probably doesn't exist outside the English language.

The exact same thought occurred to me and, unfortunately, until we sort out our centre midfield pairing we're still going to struggle in this department. We definitely need some kind of "link player" between the defence and midfield - I'd say Andy Reid is our best bet providing he stays clear of injuries.
Also agree that the 4-2-3-1 option would be well worth trying if we're to work on retaining the ball for any amount of time in the upcoming games...

[tetsujin1979]

Lessons for England from the Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-1423132.html
We'd be pretty much in the same boat as this.

[lopez]

... The thought did cross mind though a country as political diverse as Spain, did this Victory go down as well as it did in Madrid in say Bilbao or Barcelona?

I wondered what the reaction would be in the three other nations outside Greater Castille, if Spain won . Barcelona has been partying (one fan was pictured dancing with the ERC flag on one hand and the old Spanish republican flag on the other), and so have the Galician cities, but to be honest I'd be surprised if that didn't happen. It's in the Basque country where I am surprised. Vitoria and Bilbao (a link to a newspaper with a video of the celebrations below) had major celebrations with only San Sebastian being moderate. Given the 'street violence' that is conducted by ETA's youth wing at the weekends, that's no surprise. Smaller towns, or suburbs of Bilbao, where immigrants from outside have settled, of course have been celebrating.

I've been following the debates in the two major Basque Spanish papers (Diario Vasco and El Coreo Del Norte), of which both have been bombed by ETA, and there have been some verbal fisticuffs. But the majority of posters support Spain and consider there is no contradiction between being both Basque and Spanish. Some posts have been written in Euskera (which I can't understand) and generally end along the lines of 'Gora Athletic, Gora Euskadi, Gora Espainia.' Even GARA has managed to put the win at the top of its front page.

http://www.elperiodico.com/galerias....idgaleria=1175

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/fotos/2...6135829462.htm

http://www.elcorreodigital.com/vizcaya/#

http://www.diariovasco.com/20080630/...-20080630.html

http://www.gara.net/paperezkoa/20080630/pri01.pdf

[Cabs88]

The key to irelands future in midfield are the two stephen's, Ireland and Reid, if we can get both fit, committed and in form, wanting to wear the green shirt, we would be in much better stead going on to the qualifiers.
I agree that full backs have been an important feature of the tournement, with lahm, gio van bronkhorst, sergio et al all shining going forward. Holding midfielders have dropped back nearly as a third centre back to allow full backs the chance to go forward.
Its all well and good contemplating the changing face of football, and try to learn from the competition, but one wonders, will all this be lost on Trappatoni; will he stick to what he knows, and his tried and trusted style of play?!

[third policeman]

The encouraging news is that comprising technically proficient but physicaly small players beat a team of teutonic supermen. I may be an absurd optimist, but I have always believed that if we select and integrate the best of our current crop of players we could be a decent side (and a nice one to watch as well). A. Reid, McGeady, Ireland, Duff, Keane, Garvan, Doyle, Scannell etc are all players with good technique who can use the ball intelligently. We have got to adopt a Europeam mentality and stop thinking of ourselves as a team who need to get at opponents and adopt a physicaly aggressive approach to compensate for our technical limitations. I dont think that we have technical limitations.

I think we have better technical players than England and our squad should be constructed to suit the style of play that will work best for us. To me that means that Stephen Hunt would never again wear an Irish shirt.

[Billsthoughts]

Mmmmm I think I was slated here before for saying basically what tets79 said about the bubblegum...ahem I mean "holding" midfielder craze.
Only thing I got from this tournament is that we didnt deserve to be there as we arent good enough. We play atrocious football in comparison to even the mid rank teams which in our ignorance we look down on. No amount of rearranging of the deck chairs is going to change that in the short term. We need to look at a system which sends all our best young players abroad at a very young age to learn their trade in a league were technique for the most part is poor.the majority of them coming home to be branded failures. We need to call it what it is. Madness.

[Stuttgart88]

Now now Bill, I stood by you on the "holding midfielder" argument, and also on the quality of "football" we play.

I'm inclined in all my optimism to agree with Third Policeman though. Build a solid foundation and populate the top part of the pitch with our better attacking / footballing players and we'd probably see an improvement, though I doubt we can disregard Hunt so bluntly.

[seanfhear]

I think that this might hav been the tournament of the shortarse.xavi, iniesta, arshavin,villa, modric.sneider

[RogerMilla]

the tournament of the wiley old fox . Aragones and Terim out-thought all the younger less experienced managers. bodes well for ireland.

[Wolfie]

the tournament of the wiley old fox . Aragones and Terim out-thought all the younger less experienced managers. bodes well for ireland.

True - but out-thinking a team tactically will only make a difference if your players can put it into practice.

[superfrank]

- Our first 2 goalkeepers are as good as anyone's.

So Given and Kiley are as good as Casillas and Palop or Buffon and Amelia?

[Stuttgart88]

Superfrank, I thought there were a lot of weak keepers at the tournment to be honest - Russia's keeper and Ricardo spring to mind, Rustu for Turkey made costly errors and Cech showed some big game weakness again - and whilst I think Casillas is a truly top class keeper I thought he did little that I haven't seen from Shay playing for Ireland. In fact I thought he punched when he could have caught a few times if I was to be picky. Buffon is formidable. I was simply pointing out that at top international level it's not at goalkeeping level that we're lacking.

Re- the tournament of the shortarses, I accept that the smaller more technical player prevailed. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that - it was pretty obvious in the end. I guess I had Martin Samuel's citing of the old adage "a good big one will always beat a good little one" after the Germany vs Portugal game. It turned out in the end that Germany weren't even a good big one.

Can we accomodate our smaller players in classic 4-4-2? We haven't been able to recently.

[Billsthoughts]

Now now Bill, I stood by you on the "holding midfielder" argument, and also on the quality of "football" we play.

I know. It wasnt aimed out you. Just a general comment on peoples propensity on here to jump on whatever the latest perceived "truth" is.

As for the quality of the team....If you were to ask yourself would us being there have contributed anything to the tournament you would have to say no. I want us to do well but I just think our problems our more deep rooted than picking Duff or Hunt. We have a class managment team at the mo but I dont think they will achieve much with the team we have.

[OwlsFan]

We have a class managment team at the mo but I dont think they will achieve much with the team we have.

We don't have to aspire to be a Spain. Look at Germany. Dour, dogged, commited and organised and got to the final with average centre halves.