Beecher Networks - Web Development, Hosting & Domains
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Raider died after he was stabbed up to five times

  1. #1
    First Team
    Joined
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The far end
    Posts
    1,653
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Raider died after he was stabbed up to five times

    http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer...496-qqqx=1.asp

    RAIDER died after he was stabbed up to five times in the stomach when he was attacked by locals following a botched supermarket robbery.


    The man, named yesterday as 23-year-old Paul Howe from Tallaght, died in hospital just hours after he and a fellow raider were cornered in the car park of SuperValu in Killester in Dublin at 8.30pm on Wednesday.

    Local resident and Fine Gael Dublin City Councillor Gerry Breen said the incident was “a terrible thing” and said members of staff and the public involved in the confrontation with the raider may have acted out of adrenaline and fear.

    “I am not trying to justify it, but adrenaline is a funny thing,” he said. “If the crime was not perpetrated [in the first place] there would be no fatality now.”
    Tend to agree with If the crime was not perpetrated [in the first place] there would be no fatality now.
    Last edited by dahamsta; 10/10/2008 at 4:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Coach
    Joined
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Cork City
    Posts
    5,272
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    114
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    186
    Thanked in
    144 Posts
    No sympathy.
    "Must you tell me all your secrets when it's hard enough to love you knowing nothing."

    http://worddok.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Youth Team
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    237
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    i have a bit of sympathy with the person(s) who stabbed him, could be looking at a manslaughter charge, when they should be getting a medal

  4. #4
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    6,847
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    13
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    49
    Thanked in
    29 Posts
    Last I checked robbing a store didn't give an automatic death sentence, don't get me wrong this Paul Howe sounds like he's no loss to society but you could also have called this thread 'Angry Mob Murder Robber', and it would have been apt.

    Plus this quote is ridiculous

    “I am not trying to justify it, but adrenaline is a funny thing,” he said. “If the crime was not perpetrated [in the first place] there would be no fatality now.”
    Imagine a rapist using this in court. 'Your honour if she wasn't wearing that short skirt none of this would have happened, damn adrenaline got me so worked up'

  5. #5
    Youth Team
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    237
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    thats a bit of an extreme example jebus to be fair, im not condoning him being killed at all im just saying i feel sorry for the people who stabbed him to death insofar as they are more than likely looking at a manslaughter charge.

  6. #6
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    6,847
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    13
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    49
    Thanked in
    29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by hula4 View Post
    thats a bit of an extreme example jebus to be fair, im not condoning him being killed at all im just saying i feel sorry for the people who stabbed him to death insofar as they are more than likely looking at a manslaughter charge.
    And rightly so. Jesus Christ they're scumbags too

  7. #7
    Youth Team
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    237
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    And rightly so. Jesus Christ they're scumbags too
    do you know these people?

  8. #8
    Seasoned Pro
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,661
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    97
    Thanked in
    38 Posts
    All depends on the circumstances, but on the face of it there seems to have been a vicious and premeditated homicide, and the perpetrator should be charged with nothing less. If it was a struggle which spilled over outside the premises and a mutual knife fight ended in this manner, there might be some wriggle room.

    I can't believe that idiotic comment about adrenaline. If a robber stabbed someone gratuitously and not in the course of the crime itself, it would be considered an aggravating, not a mitigating, factor. Why was this individual carrying a lethal weapon and why did he pursue the criminal once the danger had apparently passed? Very few people get stabbed in self-defence, much less five times. Stabbing is an unnatural act requiring a tremendous deal of exertion which would be beyond most normal people, whatever the circumstances.

    Doubtless he'll get off if it ever comes to trial. I'm sure the Garda's friend Paul Reynolds has the victim's charge sheet at his fingertips and is spinning crazily on behalf of the Guards already.
    A leading authority on League of Ireland football since 2003. You're probably wrong.

  9. #9
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    6,847
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    13
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    49
    Thanked in
    29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by hula4 View Post
    do you know these people?
    A mob of people chased a guy, caught him and beat him and then some of them decided to stab the beaten man 5 times. What would you call them?

  10. #10
    Mack Daddy gustavo's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    7,699
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    390
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    178
    Thanked in
    80 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by hula4 View Post
    i have a bit of sympathy with the person(s) who stabbed him, could be looking at a manslaughter charge, when they should be getting a medal
    Do you think in future perhaps the sentence for robbery should be changed from a prison sentence to the death penalty?

  11. #11
    Reserves SMorgan's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2008
    Location
    Drogheda Lilywhite.
    Posts
    577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Its a sad day when we start looking up to the filth that carried out this killing.

    Throw the book at them, I say.

  12. #12
    Seasoned Pro Lionel Ritchie's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Limerick
    Posts
    4,333
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    194
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    285
    Thanked in
    168 Posts
    Some very judgmental stuff here from both ends of the spectrum. I'd prefer to wait til there's a few more established facts on the table before deciding it's alright to use lethal force on (apparently armed) robbers -OR that the full weight of the law should be brought down on other persons who's only premeditated act may have been to nip out for a paper and a pint of milk.

    I will say this -under my bed within handy reach lies a shovel handle with "eircom phonewatch" scrawled on it crudely in marker. If I ever awake to discover there are intruders in my home I intend to inform them loudly that they've activated eircom phonewatch and should get out now. If they proceed up the stairs thereafter -all bets are off.

    Given the opportunity and good fortune I'll bludgeon any moving thing til I'm satisfied it's not moving any more and I'll chuck in a couple of insurance slaps to ensure they don't get back up. I will not monitor or keep count of how many blows are delivered. I'll do it all without referal to how it'll look to the cops, to a trial judge or in the papers and I'll rationalise it that I stepped up to the plate when my family needed to be protected.

    Having that little plan is probably a reflection of the times we live in -that people feel the response of the proper authorities will be too little and too late. Also -in having that little plan I have an infinitely higher degree of pre-meditation than is likely with any of those involved in this tragedy.
    " I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"

  13. #13
    International Prospect jebus's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    6,847
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    13
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    49
    Thanked in
    29 Posts
    World of difference between you protecting yourself, your partner and your kid in your home to one or two guys stabbing a man that has just been badly beaten by a mob Lionel to be fair. If you hit the intruder with the shovel, knocked him out and then proceeded to walk to the kitchen, get a carving knife, walk back to the unconcious robber and stab him to death I'd probably be calling for you to be thrown in jail as well though. No hard feelings though

    We probably won't hear much more details either as the gardai have somehow let them off without charge
    Last edited by jebus; 11/10/2008 at 12:23 PM.

  14. #14
    Youth Team
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    237
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    World of difference between you protecting yourself, your partner and your kid in your home to one or two guys stabbing a man that has just been badly beaten by a mob Lionel to be fair. If you hit the intruder with the shovel, knocked him out and then proceeded to walk to the kitchen, get a carving knife, walk back to the unconcious robber and stab him to death I'd probably be calling for you to be thrown in jail as well though. No hard feelings though

    We probably won't hear much more details either as the gardai have somehow let them off without charge


    that statement while factually correct, just shows the ignorance some people have in relation to how the system works.

    if you want the facts the person who killed him walked up to the first Garda at the scene and handed himself over.

    And in relation to "somehow being let of with charge" Guards NEVER decide the punishment for a serious incident like this, they prepare the file and send it to the D.P.P. who decides whether the person should be charged or not.

    the Gardai had no reason to hold the suspect further once they had finished interviewing him and taking the relevant samples etc, it obviously isnt a murder case and they were satisfied with the persons identity and he is not a flight risk so they had no reason or power to hold them any further

  15. #15
    First Team
    Joined
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The far end
    Posts
    1,653
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1011/howep.html

    A 28-year-old man has appeared before the Dublin District Court charged with the robbery of a supermarket in Killester on Wednesday.

    Joseph Rafferty, with an address at Russell Place, Russell Square, Tallaght, was one of two men who allegedly raided the Supervalu supermarket and robbed €3,000.
    Not a small robbery. i read the two question were a security gurad & a husband of one of the shop workers, hardly scumbags. As said here already , if they did over step the mark then they'll face a court. It's bit early to be jumping to conclusions about how the robber was stabbed. I also read that the only weapon was the one the raider had.

  16. #16
    Seasoned Pro Lionel Ritchie's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Limerick
    Posts
    4,333
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    194
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    285
    Thanked in
    168 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    World of difference between you protecting yourself, your partner and your kid in your home to one or two guys stabbing a man that has just been badly beaten by a mob Lionel to be fair.
    Absolutely. But my point essentially was that in these confrontational situations people don't check the reference manual to see how much force they can or can't use. The take the next step they deem neccessary, regardless how extreme it may seem in hindsight, and adopt a "bill me later" attitude to the consequences.

    There's a lesson for would be robbers and would be have a go heroes in this too. Never, ever pull a weapon unless you're absolutely prepared to use it.
    " I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"

  17. #17
    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Basel (Allschwil)
    Posts
    5,829
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,823
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    436
    Thanked in
    335 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post

    Doubtless he'll get off if it ever comes to trial. I'm sure the Garda's friend Paul Reynolds has the victim's charge sheet at his fingertips and is spinning crazily on behalf of the Guards already.
    funny - "well known a ss licker" - isnt that what Vincent Browne called him on air once - he is a good friend of the boyz in blue thats for sure

    i actually used to visit this shop in Killester quite regularly, the early morning staff there always seemed decent

    as for adrenaline - i mean if someone put a knife to your girls throat what would you do? - as alleged in some papers

    i remember when i was in bed one morning and the door was kicked in with a fella holding a meat cleaver - i was so shocked i ran for him, and was shouting like a mad man - i did all this without even thinking and it worked as the fella legged it out the door as fast as he could - its funny what you can do when you are confronted with situations like this, and when anger can take over.
    In my situation that fact i was in my under wear, and had a ragin hanover might also have been a factor!!!!

  18. #18
    International Prospect NeilMcD's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    7,692
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    funny - "well known a ss licker" - isnt that what Vincent Browne called him on air once - he is a good friend of the boyz in blue thats for sure

    i actually used to visit this shop in Killester quite regularly, the early morning staff there always seemed decent

    as for adrenaline - i mean if someone put a knife to your girls throat what would you do? - as alleged in some papers

    i remember when i was in bed one morning and the door was kicked in with a fella holding a meat cleaver - i was so shocked i ran for him, and was shouting like a mad man - i did all this without even thinking and it worked as the fella legged it out the door as fast as he could - its funny what you can do when you are confronted with situations like this, and when anger can take over.
    In my situation that fact i was in my under wear, and had a ragin hanover might also have been a factor!!!!
    I think you in your underwear was probably the reason he ran away.
    In Trap we trust

  19. #19
    Godless Commie Scum
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Co Wickla
    Posts
    11,396
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    138
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    656
    Thanked in
    436 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    World of difference between you protecting yourself, your partner and your kid in your home to one or two guys stabbing a man that has just been badly beaten by a mob Lionel to be fair.
    We don't know the circumstances yet. As I understand it, the robber was stabbed in the course of the struggle - no reason to suggest it was premeditated or even deliberate at this stage. The only crime we know of is the actual robbery.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

  20. #20
    International Prospect sadloserkid's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Cork
    Posts
    6,049
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,071
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    501
    Thanked in
    295 Posts
    As fas as I'm concerned the world is a better place without Paul Howe cluttering it up and wasting our oxygen. Fact of the matter is that there was a struggle when the armed robber attempted to flea with his stolen money. I don't believe for a second that the 'mob' took the knife from his back pocket where he'd carefully placed it after his initial crime. He was obviously chased, brandished the knife, threatened again to use it and got his just deserts to be completely honest. No loss at all. If any of the people involved have a history of knifing armed scum then perhaps the possibility of charges should be explored but if, as is most likely, they were just regular people threatened with violence and bodily harm who reacted against that turn them loose and set them on their way.
    The ball is round and has many surprises.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Kim Jong-Il has died
    By culloty82 in forum Current Affairs
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 05/01/2012, 8:48 AM
  2. Who died on Your Birthday?
    By Thunderblaster in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 08/05/2009, 1:21 AM
  3. Arsenal fan stabbed in Rome.
    By reder in forum World League Football
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12/03/2009, 6:04 PM
  4. The day Notwork54 died?
    By pete in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 27/12/2001, 1:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •