Pro Cycling (inc Tour de France) 2008

**Macy** · 24/07/2008, 8:37 AM

I'd say spoiler tags can be removed now? I feel CSC left it too late - should've sent Sastre up the road on the Croix de Fer and really put the others under pressure. I don't see how they have enough time on Evans for the Time Trial...

**Stuttgart88** · 24/07/2008, 9:05 AM

This is getting really exciting and I can't wait for the time trial on Saturday. Much as I love listening to Liggett, I feel he's a bit of a John Motson of the cycling world - you love his enthusiasm but you take his comments with a pinch of salt. At the start he said 90 seconds was the likely TT difference, and the gap is virtually that. Let's see...

What if only seconds separate two or more riders after the TT? My understanding is that there is a gentleman's agreement not to attack the yellow jersey on the last stage if his lead is meaningful but if it's only a few seconds I presume this doesn't apply. That said, on a shortish flat stage where all the sprinters' teams are vying for position I assume it's virtually impossible to create any gaps on the last stage.

On the EPO issue: I heard that Roche, the Swiss drug company, alerted the French anti-doping authorities to their new variant of EPO which is not yet detectable. However, they put markers in the stuff that they produced. The testers, instead of testing for EPO, simply tested for the marker, so it was a concerted sting on riders they had identified.

Something along those lines anyway.

**Dodge** · 24/07/2008, 9:06 AM

Dunno about that Macy, it was a pretty hard day and I'm not sure Sastre would've last that long on his own. Cancellera and some of the other CSC boys did a huge shift at the front and left Castre and the Schlecks pretty much fresh for the last big hill of the tour. Looking at the results from the first (shorter) ITT this year and Evans had a minute over Kohl, Sastres and Schleck who were all roughly the same. I think if vande Velde hadn't have crashed the other day it'd have been between himself and Evans. But we all know (well the ones that look at the sport) that the yellow jersey makes people do superhuman efforts so sastres still has a fighting chance

**Stuttgart88** · 24/07/2008, 9:08 AM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

The thread is about the tour de france. The cycling. If there is a positive test then by all means comment on it. Dont make blanket sweeping statements like "they are all on drugs - whats the point of watching it" because its factually incorrect and makes you sound like you are just trying to start a row for the sake of it. Its a good open tour this year if you are into cycling you should have watched it. If your not into cycling why are you posting in the thread? Start a new thread about doping in all sports if you want.

Good man Bill!

Anyone watch the 20 great TdF moments after the main show on ITV4 last night? Great stuff, even if many of the protagonists were doped up.

**Bluebeard** · 24/07/2008, 9:21 AM

Cancellara has been CSC's man of the Tour for me, and I'd say he is raging with the Schlecks and Sastre now. Look at the efforts he put in in the mountain stages this year - virtually team time-trialling them up the Pyrenees and Alps, giving his all for the team effort, and they repay that work by ballsing up the chance to genuinely get a minute or two up on Evans and Menchov.

What odds on Sastre and Schleck getting into a break in the last hours racing, then Cancellara causing the biggest messiest crash in recent tour history, holding up the bunch by a full minute and a half? Because if there is to be any chance of a CSC guy wear yellow in Paris, that could be the only way it will happen.

**Macy** · 24/07/2008, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Dunno about that Macy, it was a pretty hard day and I'm not sure Sastre would've last that long on his own.

I didn't necessarily mean on his own, but left Frank Schleck and gone up the road with someone else in the team. To me it was like CSC settled for podiums instead of going all in for the win. They road like Postal/ Discovery would've, but without a great time trialler. I agree that obviously he'll raise his game in Yellow and has the advantage of being last off, so it's not a total given but you'd have to think Evans would have the same motivation to take it. And in fairness it'd be some win doing it virtually single handed, especially with the strength of CSC if Evans does take it...

I hadn't realised Vande Velde had crashed on the descent on Tuesday until Wednesday morning. Very bad luck as he'd seemingly limited his losses to around 30 seconds at the top.

**Billsthoughts** · 24/07/2008, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Good man Bill!

Anyone watch the 20 great TdF moments after the main show on ITV4 last night? Great stuff, even if many of the protagonists were doped up.

No but I was youtubeing old tour stages last nite. I never knew roche had attacked delgado on the flat at laplagne(sp). the 85 tour as well roche and kelly finished 3rd and 4th. There is a great stage were Roche attacks and Lemond follows only to be told not to push for the yellow cause hinault who had crashed the day before was behind him.

**Dodge** · 24/07/2008, 9:46 AM

Fair point re the general lack of attacks from CSC.

Originally Posted by Macy

And in fairness it'd be some win doing it virtually single handed, especially with the strength of CSC if Evans does take it...

Silence -Lotto specifically signed Popovych to be Evans "super-domestique" but he's been relatively poor this year. Apart from the CSC team none of the others have had any team help at all (and it looked to me like valverde was helping CSC yesterday too)

Youtube is terrific for cycling highlights.

**Macy** · 24/07/2008, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Silence -Lotto specifically signed Popovych to be Evans "super-domestique" but he's been relatively poor this year.

Evans wanted to keep Horner instead - Popovych never lived up to the hype that was put on him. He's had an alright career that has been deemed a failure through no fault of his own...

Originally Posted by Dodge

Apart from the CSC team none of the others have had any team help at all (and it looked to me like valverde was helping CSC yesterday too)

I would've expected Periero to be up their with Valverde too. Evans was isolated a lot quicker than any of the others. I wouldn't be surprised to see him off to Tinkoff, perhaps more so if he doesn't win.

Originally Posted by Dodge

Youtube is terrific for cycling highlights.

*Curses the Government for not having nationwide broadband yet*

**Dodge** · 24/07/2008, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Evans wanted to keep Horner instead - Popovych never lived up to the hype that was put on him. He's had an alright career that has been deemed a failure through no fault of his own...

His career has been fine, and in previous tours he was immense for Armstrong (and particularly last year for Contador) but this year's tour he hasn't lasted the pace in the mountains as well. I forgot about Horner (but lets face it Evans was on his own for most of last year too)

Periero was injured earlier in the season and wasn't at 100% IMO

Regarding a possible move, I think a lot of cyclists will sit tight until they find out what teams are around. Gerolsteiner and Barloworld have announced they're quitting so that leaves quality riders like Schumacher, Kohl, Soler, Hunter without rides. Add in teams like Astana and now Saunier Duval probably being banned from le tour and there's less and less guaranteed tour spots. I think Garmin (and probably tinkoff) will be promoted to protour level

**Macy** · 24/07/2008, 10:18 AM

I thought the Protour was dead? Astana will be back next year. They have the same testing system as CSC so there's no reason to exclude them, especially after the Giro caving and letting them in this year. I think any new sponsors will be insisting on similar testing regimes from now on.

**Dodge** · 24/07/2008, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

I thought the Protour was dead? Astana will be back next year. They have the same testing system as CSC so there's no reason to exclude them, especially after the Giro caving and letting them in this year. I think any new sponsors will be insisting on similar testing regimes from now on.

Protour is still going (although how meaningful it is without the grand tours and 4 of the 5 monuments is debateable). Either way there'll still be a team grading system.

**Bluebeard** · 24/07/2008, 11:16 AM

The Protour is about as meaningful now as the ENECO Tour: yes, people would be happy to win it, but with a few exceptions, no-one is going to entire build their season on doing well in it. After Di Luca got shunted out last year, it lost a lot of what creditability it had. And it's pretty much dead in the water for the rest of the season now after the rest day conference in Pau...

**Dodge** · 24/07/2008, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebeard

And it's pretty much dead in the water for the rest of the season now after the rest day conference in Pau...

Missed that conference, anyone wanna give me the general gist. The actuallly tour "championship" was always rubbish but the idea that the top teams got automatic invites into the top races was the key.

If its gone, I'd imagine it would revert to the old divisional structure ?

**Bluebeard** · 24/07/2008, 1:01 PM

Death of the Pro-Tour story , with some links to the continuation of the story.

Dunno about the divisional structure system - by the sounds of things, it could be a variation on the Pro-tour with different people in charge, and the organisers and teams getting more say. Of the Protour teams still existing at the time, only Astana were not there as they were not invited to the Tour. With Saunier Duval now gone from cycling, Tinkoff becoming a Russian National side, the threatened dawn of a British National side, and non-Protour teams like the "Irish" LPR Brakes, Agritubel Slipstream/Garmin and Barloworld making a major impact on the grand tours this and last year, I think it makes a lot more sense.

**Dodge** · 24/07/2008, 1:27 PM

Cheers for the link Bluebeard, was in riga for that and missed it. (apologies to Macy for the misunderstanding earlier)

Wikipedia has decent pages on the divisional breakdown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_Continental_Tour and subsequent pages

Before the pro tour there was about 25-30 "Division one" teams and then "divison 2" (the current professional continental teams like Slipstream) and division 3 teams (like the Kelly An Post team)

Protour tried to limit the amount of teams in it and I remember a mad fight between some of the French team to get the last spot.

**Bluebeard** · 24/07/2008, 1:36 PM

Interesting to see who is in the second tier. I have to admit to disgust at the lack of Irish cyclists on the major Irish teams - not even as stagiares! No Irish in the websites either - how unusual

**Macy** · 24/07/2008, 2:14 PM

Confidis had already announced they were pulling out of the ProTour, as they said it was no good for their sponsor to be going some of the places they had on the calendar and I suspect that was also the reason for a lot of other teams. One of the main selling points of the protour was automatic entry to the Grand Tours, but since that isn't the case anymore I guess there's less reason to treck around some of the places that the Protour committed them too.

**Bluebeard** · 24/07/2008, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Confidis had already announced they were pulling out of the ProTour, as they said it was no good for their sponsor to be going some of the places they had on the calendar and I suspect that was also the reason for a lot of other teams. One of the main selling points of the protour was automatic entry to the Grand Tours, but since that isn't the case anymore I guess there's less reason to treck around some of the places that the Protour committed them too.

True, it getting to be a case of
"Tour of Russia" - "Pray for Us"
"Tour Down Under" - "Pray for Us"
"Tour de France" - "Grant us your salvation"

**SilkCut** · 26/07/2008, 2:31 AM

I really hope Evans cleans up on the time trial and wins this years tour. Living in Oz they are quite arrogant about what they achieve in all sports - some idiots seriously felt they should have won the 2006 world cup - Evans winning however would go some way to rebuilding the reputation of the TDF and pro cycling in general, there has never been any hint of him using drugs and he is so modest and down to earth in interviews that it beggars belief. The man is a machine, even more determined than Armstrong and it is obvious that a win would mean everything to him. I'm no expert on the sport so was just wondering how you guys felt about his chances?