eircom League in Europe - 2008

**pineapple stu** · 02/07/2008, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by holidaysong

What kind of draws did the Hungarian and Lithuanian clubs get? Could getting to 31st be done?

From the point of view of UEFA Cup seeding, Hungary's not relevant as the draw is regionalised in the first couple of rounds.

**holidaysong** · 02/07/2008, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

From the point of view of UEFA Cup seeding, Hungary's not relevant as the draw is regionalised in the first couple of rounds.

I know that, I wasn't really concerned with seeding. I was just wondering if the Lithuanian and Hungarian clubs had harder draws than the Irish clubs and therefore if we could leapfrog them in the rankings. It could be possible to jump Hungary next year with them losing the big 4.166 perhaps?

**Dodge** · 02/07/2008, 8:41 PM

But jumping them won't matter. LIkewise Moldova. I we go ahead of Lithunia, the next stop is Latvia

**HarpoJoyce** · 02/07/2008, 9:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

But jumping them won't matter. LIkewise Moldova. I we go ahead of Lithunia, the next stop is Latvia

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

From the point of view of UEFA Cup seeding, Hungary's not relevant as the draw is regionalised in the first couple of rounds.

I think holidaysong's question is about the central ranking list. And how the LoI can gain places in one season.
Last season the LoI gained 5 places
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/k...id=584172.html *

One apology I used this link in JC_GUFC's co-eff thread, but the source lmaterial remains relevant to this post.

**holidaysong** · 02/07/2008, 9:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

But jumping them won't matter. LIkewise Moldova. I we go ahead of Lithunia, the next stop is Latvia

In terms of seeding it doesn't matter of course if we are ahead of Moldova, but 31st would be better than 33rd.

EDIT - That was indeed what I was asking about HarpoJoyce.

**higgins** · 03/07/2008, 12:20 AM

Well does anyone know for sure if next seasons UEFA Cup will be based on Regions for the opening rounds ?
I don't think it has been decided yet.

From what I can tell (assuming we get 3 or 4 wins this year), we will be seeded in QR1 of UEFA Cup and seeded in QR2 of the UEFA Cup.

In the CL it looks like the team who represents us would need to have some of their own points in the team coefficient charts to be seeded. I suppose we are looking to Pats or Bohs to get past QR2 of the UEFA Cup this year and to go on and win the eircom League!

**bigmac** · 03/07/2008, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

But jumping them won't matter.

True - but the overall rankings matter in terms of where the teams enter each competition. The 2 nearest magic numbers are:

34th in the rankings - 3rd place into Q1, Cup winners & 2nd place into Q2
27th in the rankings - 3rd place into Q1, 2nd place into Q2 & Cup winners into Q3

If we have 2 good European seasons then 27th is just about attainable which would mean that the Cup winners would only have to win two ties to get to the group stages.

**holidaysong** · 03/07/2008, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by bigmac

34th in the rankings - 3rd place into Q1, Cup winners & 2nd place into Q2
27th in the rankings - 3rd place into Q1, 2nd place into Q2 & Cup winners into Q3

If we have 2 good European seasons then 27th is just about attainable which would mean that the Cup winners would only have to win two ties to get to the group stages.

Should that be Q1 then?

**bigmac** · 03/07/2008, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by holidaysong

Should that be Q1 then?

No - the 27th ranked country will get its cup-winning representatives directly into the 3rd qualifying round. They would definitely be unseeded here, but there would be a huge chance of a glamour tie as all the top countries will have a representative here as well.

**holidaysong** · 03/07/2008, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by bigmac

No - the 27th ranked country will get its cup-winning representatives directly into the 3rd qualifying round. They would definitely be unseeded here, but there would be a huge chance of a glamour tie as all the top countries will have a representative here as well.

But a close to zero chance of gaining co-efficient points therefore causing them to drop down the rankings again. It seems like a way of creating a closed shop for the top leagues to me.
It would arguably be better to enter earlier in Q1 or Q2 and be seeded, thereby allowing them a chance to improve upon their co-efficient.

**HarpoJoyce** · 03/07/2008, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

Well does anyone know for sure if next seasons UEFA Cup will be based on Regions for the opening rounds ?
I don't think it has been decided yet.

From what I can tell (assuming we get 3 or 4 wins this year), we will be seeded in QR1 of UEFA Cup and seeded in QR2 of the UEFA Cup.

In the CL it looks like the team who represents us would need to have some of their own points in the team coefficient charts to be seeded. I suppose we are looking to Pats or Bohs to get past QR2 of the UEFA Cup this year and to go on and win the eircom League!

It's usual for UEFA to reginalise associations close to their neighbours now. Otherwise they are paying out large compensation for travel to clubs who can't afford the travel.

I used to care about which LoI clubs qualified for Europe and that they hang on to their best players during the close season. But that leads to the same clubs qualifying and further leads to stagnation and compleancy.

Originally Posted by holidaysong

But a close to zero chance of gaining co-efficient points therefore causing them to drop down the rankings again. It seems like a way of creating a closed shop for the top leagues to me.
It would arguably be better to enter earlier in Q1 or Q2 and be seeded, thereby allowing them a chance to improve upon their co-efficient.

That's the nature of the co-efficient ranking list. The later a club is introduced to the competition the more difficult it is to gain match points. Easy games many points move up. Less games, harder points move down.
Because the ramp is so slow up the table, it's hoped LoI clubs will be prepared for the higher standard. But there are numerous mini-whirlwinds on the list, it's fun watching Greece and Turkey compete for the same places.

At the same time, there's an annual tournament so its where a club finishes on that too that can be measured. I call it the race for UEFA Cup round one.

The introduction of the cup-winners into the 3rd UEFA Cup qualifying round will dilute this round as invariably it will have many domestic mod-table or below cups. And is an advantage to any talented club.

**bigmac** · 04/07/2008, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by holidaysong

But a close to zero chance of gaining co-efficient points therefore causing them to drop down the rankings again. It seems like a way of creating a closed shop for the top leagues to me.
It would arguably be better to enter earlier in Q1 or Q2 and be seeded, thereby allowing them a chance to improve upon their co-efficient.

True - several people have pointed out before that should the current improvement continue, we will eventually end up in a seesaw situation for a few years where entry to a higher round causes us to drop down which then gets us the points to get up again.

The top leagues are definitely faring well in the new system, but the Uefa group stages were always difficult to qualify for given the large numbers of teams from the top countries. As you say, a close to zero chance of getting into Q4 from Q3 and an even unlikelier chance of getting out of Q4.

The new format for the CL does make it a little bit easier however. 5 of the places in the group stages will be allocated to countries ranked 13 and worse. Essentially this would mean that to make the CL group stages, the LOI team would probably have to beat 1 team ranked between 13 and 22 - and 1 team ranked 13 to 18 assuming that other matches go with the seeding. While still a difficult task, think back to Shels against Deportivo and think how much more realistic the group stages would have seemed had they been playing Anderlecht or Rosenberg that year - and those would have been seeded teams.

**mattl** · 04/07/2008, 9:20 PM

Don't forget though it will be much easier to qualify for the Uefa Cup group stages via the Champions League.

So next year our league winner only has to get to Q3 of the Champions League and if they lose in that they go directly into the Uefa Cup group stages (as opposed to Round1 in the current format).

Easier said than done yes but do remember the new qualifying system means it'll be a lot easier to get through the Champions Leage Q2 as you'll only be facing the champions from leagues 13-25 so with a good draw it's very do-able e.g. Sweden, Slovakia, Cyprus or Croatia.

What do yez think?