Can we finish this once and for all???!

**Deckydee** · 16/04/2008, 11:16 AM

Hi

There has been a million threads going on about this for the last two months and I think it is time that we cleared it up once and for all. I thought that it was sorted but I read an article on ‘eleven a side’ and now again everything is all over the place. Before I start, this is the article:

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysing...ws.asp?n=31825

I thought (and I think many here do as well) that once a player plays a competitive U-21 match that he is now stuck forever with the country he represented

Why then is this person worried that Sean will play for England? If he played a competitive match (which he did) for ROI U21 then:

1 - He has officially declared for Ireland

2 – He can never play for England

Right?

Can we get this issue cleared up?

**jmurphyc** · 16/04/2008, 11:20 AM

As far as I'm aware if you've played underage football for a certain country you are allowed to change allegiance up until your 21st birthday.

**Deckydee** · 16/04/2008, 11:29 AM

Hi

I have been doing some digging and found this article about Jamie O'Hara:

http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News...cets/football/ but at the end it says:

O’Hara made his debut for the England U21 side in a 0-0 draw with Poland last month, but is yet to taste competitive action at that level

So, it seems that the rule is as follows:

You must be:

1 - Be under the age of 21

2 - Not have played at competitive level at U21

3 - Not have played at competitive level at Senior.

Which brings me back to my orginal question!!

**Flawless** · 16/04/2008, 11:35 AM

Ok,

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new
nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several Associations’
teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21st birthday, request
to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international
matches to the Association of another country of which he
holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:

(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) at “A” international
level for his current Association, and if at the time of his
first full or partial appearance in an international match in an
official competition for his current Association, he already had
the nationality of the Association’s team for which he wishes to
play.
(b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition
in which he has already played for his previous Association.
A player may exercise this right only once

Thats the Official Fifa bit,This is an FAI reply to an email I sent with regards An article on Joe Lapira i was doing, i wonder does the same apply?:

"Hi Ciaran

Thank you for your query. According to FIFA regulations a player who has
already represented one Association in a match (either in full or part) in an
official competition or any category may not play an international match for a
representative team of another Association. However a player may request a
change of Association from FIFA up to his 21st birthday.

As Joe Lapira has only represented the Republic of Ireland in a friendly match,
he would not be tied to this Association.

I hope this information is of assistance to you. For further information you
can find the FIFA regulations on the FIFA website - www.fifa.com.

Kind regards

Mr. Chris Ryan
International Department Manager
Football Association of Ireland"

**Deckydee** · 16/04/2008, 11:42 AM

Hi,

That is what I am saying I guess. So the article from 'Eleven a side' must be wrong then

**Flawless** · 16/04/2008, 11:52 AM

Its a bit of a cloudy area i think!,could never get to the bottom of it!

**Drumcondra 69er** · 16/04/2008, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Deckydee

Hi,

That is what I am saying I guess. So the article from 'Eleven a side' must be wrong then

It's certainly wrong in stating he'd be tied to us by playing in a friendly seeing as Lapira isn't....

**geysir** · 16/04/2008, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Flawless

Ok,
Thats the Official Fifa bit,This is an FAI reply to an email I sent with regards An article on Joe Lapira i was doing, i wonder does the same apply?:

AFAIR that is the letter that was posted on another forum (big soccer?)
last summer.
The letter is purported to come from somebody in the FAI, therefore the assumption was that it had some authenticity. Loud guffaws all round

The FIFA statute for changing national teams is divided into 2 parts

"He has not played a match (either in full or in part) at “A” international
level for his current Association",
FIFA define "An international “A” match is a match arranged between two Members of FIFA and for which both Members field their first representative
team".
Therefore Playing in a friendly senior A level match is enough to tie a player to that country.

The second part is
"and if at the time of his
first full or partial appearance in an international match in an
official competition for his current Association, he already had
the nationality of the Association’s team for which he wishes to
play."
This has to refer to an underage competitive game, that before he played in a competitive underage game he already had the nationality of the other country he want to declare for.

**Scooby Doo** · 16/04/2008, 2:21 PM

So bottom line is then that O Hara can't play for us and Scannell can play for England until he reaches 21 or plays a full competative match for Ireland????? Lapira can also still play for the US then????

**geysir** · 16/04/2008, 2:31 PM

Your bottom line gets 2 out of 3.

Lapira cant play for the USA because he has been capped at "A" level international for us.
Aren't we fortunate

**jmurphyc** · 16/04/2008, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Your bottom line gets 2 out of 3.

Lapira cant play for the USA because he has been capped at "A" level international for us.
Aren't we fortunate

Bring back... Joseph Lapira.

**Scooby Doo** · 16/04/2008, 2:40 PM

Yeah, hopefully Trap and the lads will fly over to Nybergsund soon and check him out!

**eekers** · 16/04/2008, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Scooby Doo

So bottom line is then that O Hara can't play for us and Scannell can play for England until he reaches 21 or plays a full competative match for Ireland????? Lapira can also still play for the US then????

No, all he has to do is play 1 minute of one friendly international for Ireland (not a 'b' international) to be tied to us forever.

**Flawless** · 16/04/2008, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

AFAIR that is the letter that was posted on another forum (big soccer?)
last summer.
The letter is purported to come from somebody in the FAI, therefore the assumption was that it had some authenticity. Loud guffaws all round

.

I believe i was the one who posted it on BigSoccer last summer??

And it is a reply i recieved from the FAI.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showt...=540397&page=4

**geysir** · 17/04/2008, 2:21 PM

Even if it came from the FAI, it is still nonsense.
The only way Lapira could declare for the USA is if the friendly against Ecuador was relegated to a "B" international status.

**eekers** · 17/04/2008, 3:36 PM

its pretty simple the guy in the fai misinterputed friendly games as non-competitive. whereas fifa consider them as competitive non-tournament matches that are awarded fifa ranking points.

**Flawless** · 17/04/2008, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by eekers

its pretty simple the guy in the fai misinterputed friendly games as non-competitive. whereas fifa consider them as competitive non-tournament matches that are awarded fifa ranking points.

I thought that originally too, geysir, if you read the thread on bigsoccer you will see that was my original stance, it only changed when i recieved the reply!,i would have no reason for making up an FAI response!!

**geysir** · 17/04/2008, 10:14 PM

Sorry about that, I suppose I should have said it much better that I did,
that the reply looked like it was from the FAI but that I was more sure that it was a reply from a naive delusional FAI employee who thought he could reply on behalf of the FAI on such a sensitive question.

I have just looked at that thread and I see that your instincts were right but you didn't trust in them enough

I also saw that the football experts in Sports Illustrated were similarly misguided by a letter from someone they knew in FIFA who told them that Freddy Adu was still eligible to declare for Ghana even after he was capped for the USA in a friendly.

**Flawless** · 17/04/2008, 10:36 PM

Yea reading things again i dont know how i conceded to that FAI reply, but it has to be said that FIFA havent got it exactly clear in their rulebook!

**geysir** · 04/06/2008, 12:43 AM

The FIFA statute for the cap that binds you has been re-worded,
remember it wasn't the clearest.

OLD VERSION
"He has not played a match (either in full or in part) at “A”
international level for his current Association, and if at the time of
his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition for
his current Association, he already had the nationality of the Association’s team for
which he wishes to play."

THE NEW VERSION
"(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an
official competition at “A” international level for his current
Association, and at the time of his first full or partial
appearance in an international match in an official competition
for his current Association, he already had the nationality of
the representative team for which he wishes to play".

There is a big important difference in the words used. Now the emphasis is on that the player (aged under 21) has not been capped at senior level in an official competition.
That means a senior friendly is not enough for an under 21 player to be tied up to one country. It has to be a Qualifier and maybe some other competitions like a Confederation Cup.