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Thread: Who is Irelandís next tier one player?

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    Who is Irelandís next tier one player?

    Have we got one?

    By Ďtier oneí I mean genuine top class player. A player that would grace any of the big four in England and their contemporaries in Europe. In the past we have always had at least a few of these in the team and in the glory days arguably a handful (McGrath, Houghton, Whelan, Brady etc).

    Now we really only have Robbie Keane. And he is playing at Spurs. He is not playing for one of the big four in England and itís arguable that he may not be a guaranteed starter if he was (donít go getting excited, I am not bashing himÖI am a fan). In the recent past we could have argued for Duffís inclusion in this and Given possiblyÖbut injuries have put paid to that. My own rose tinted glasses may see me want to include Dunne in this, however despite his reported availability the clubs rumoured to be interested in him are the Aston Villaís and Portsmouthís of this world. If he was really tier one class then surely Arsenal or maybe Liverpool or Chelsea would be interested.

    So who is our next Rolls Royce? Have we got one? Is there a once in a generation player in the pipeline? Who is he?

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    the difference is "in the glory days", english football wasn't as competitive as it is now, nor was there a top 4 as such, nor were they doing well in Europe like they are now. SO technically the players mentioned above never played for top clubs of the time i.e. Italian clubs. Therefore trying to compare is silly. A totenham might be as competitive as a team then........
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    the difference is "in the glory days", english football wasn't as competitive as it is now, nor was there a top 4 as such, nor were they doing well in Europe like they are now. SO technically the players mentioned above never played for top clubs of the time i.e. Italian clubs. Therefore trying to compare is silly. A totenham might be as competitive as a team then........

    I definitely agree with you there...I have had many discussions along the same lines. if you were to remove 95% of the 'foreigners' from the English Premier League and leave predominantly English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh players in there (as in the 70's and 80's) then of it's likely that the talent will fill the gaps above (ie, Robbie Keane might be at Man Utd, Given at Arsenal etc).

    I agree with all that. Taking that into account, I am still interested to know if we are in the process of producing a Keane, Brady, Giles or Babb.

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    Could be a while before we have another genuine World Class player coming through though I'd disagree with your mentioning of Keane as our only current player who fits this description as I don't think he's good enough to be described as top class. A fit Given who's getting regular games is still imo good enough for any of the top four. I wouldn't hold it against him that Kevin Keegan doesn't seem to rate him as I reckon Keegan is clueless regarding any defensive player's abilities and will probably not be at Newcastle this time next year.

    Finnan not too long ago could easily be described as a top class full back (arguably the best in the Premiership) but he's been dropped lately and his form has dipped considerably. He hasn't become a bad player overnight though and I believe he is still good enough for one of the top four clubs if he can't cement a place at Liverpool. I was surprised to hear that a move back to Fulham could be in the pipeline. Surely he can do better than them if he's moved on.

    Of the current crop of young players I'd say Garvan, James McCarthy, McGeady and Scannell are the ones most likely (if any) to break into the top four clubs though all would have to move to a mid table Premiership club first and impress there.
    Last edited by youngirish; 28/05/2008 at 10:52 AM.

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    Good post.

    going by papers and interest then McCarthy at Hamilton is next big thing in the world never mind Ireland.

    Personally I'm not sure think Brady at Utd could turn into a decent pro... although he properly end up in league of Ireland.

    robbie Keane is nowhere near top four team imo.

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    I don't think Robbie Keane is good enough to make it into that band alongside the likes of Brady, McGrath, Roy Keane etc - he is a very talented player but he just lacks something extra that those guys did have. Damien Duff might be closer to that group: when he left Chelsea they (Chelsea) bent over backwards to make sure he didn't go to Liverpool because they believed he had the ability to do well there.

    The argument about English teams having more foreign-based players is an interesting one. What no-one's mentioned though is that all of the big four in England have effectively got two teams which they rotate; this was not the case in the 80s and early 90s. Yes - Irish players are having to compete against a greater pool of players but there are more places up for grabs too. The other thing I would say is that scouting networks are far more thorough than they used to be: if a player exists with the talent he will get spotted. Whether that player realises his potential depends on his attitude and whether or not he can stay injury-free. At the end of the day, if a player is good enough and he works hard and listens to his coaches and does not get injured, then there will be a place for him at one of the top clubs. If none of the top clubs want him that will be because they don't see him as being able to add to their side or be a threat if he signs for one of their rivals.

    And - hang on a sec - I've just seen that you're putting Phil Babb in the same bracket as Roy Keane, Liam Brady and John Giles ...

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    I reckon we have a 'tier one' player in the making in Aiden McGeady he is not there just yet but this season he has come a long way. His consistent performances for the Bhoys this year saw him quiet rightly won the players player of the year and young player of the year award in Scotland which is an excellent achievement. He still possess the tricks and skills he used to but he now has added an extra dimension to his game with his end product and his team ethic, he now does more to work back and help his defence out. If he continues on in the form he has shown this season i am sure it wont be too long before a 'big' team in england or spain come a knocking on Celtics door looking for the Bhoy McGeady.
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    Don't see any world class player in the pipeline at the moment, wouldn't say Robbie is world class but he probably is good enough to start for Liverpool given that they only really have 1 quality stiker so does that make him tier one? Duff could probably have been considered world class back in 2002-2003. McGeady seems our best prospect right now, don't think he will quite reach the level Duff did but I think he could be a very good player for us, hopefully Keogh, Garvan and McCarthy will come good too
    Last edited by Morbo; 28/05/2008 at 10:38 AM.

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    ya prob mcgeady even tho i wouldnt be that familiar with the younger guys maybe we havent heard much of yet. what about stephen ireland if he cops on. great talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie View Post
    what about stephen ireland if he cops on. great talent.
    You could level that remark at a few Irish players who have come through over the last ten years or so

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    Owen Garvan.

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    We have had 4 truely world class players in that last 40 or so years. Giles, Brady, McGrath and Roy Keane. That is the standard and at the moment I don't see anyone like that out there.

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    I don't really get the point of the 'tier one' debate. As I pointed out on another thread, the most successful European nations outside of the traditional big seven (Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Holland and England) do not have any abundance of players playing for G14 clubs. Sweden have only two (Mellberg and Ibrahimovic) yet have qualified for the last five tournaments. Poland only have Kusczak and Fabianski, yet have qualified for the last two. Croatia, one of the most successful European nations outside the big seven, do not have one G14 player in their Euro 2008 squad (though Eduardo is injured), and their playmaker, Modric, has just signed for Spurs. Same goes for Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Switzerland and Ukraine. The G14 clubs are dominated by South Americans, Africans and players from the 'Big Seven' in Europe. Mutu and Kezman, for example, have suffered the same fate as Duff, but remain key players for their countries.

    We are never going to have the same number of players at the top English clubs as we did in the seventies or eighties. But neither will England! Let's not forget that only thirteen years ago, Blackburn won the Premiership with a team of; Flowers, Kenna, Le Saux, Hendry, Pearce, Sherwood, Batty, Wilcox, Ripley, Shearer and Sutton. How many of those had successful international careers? European and English club football has changed a lot since then. International football hasn't - it's still the traditional powerhouses dominating, with us second/third ranked European nations battling each other for the same amount of qualification places. In my opinion, fifteen years ago, Given, Dunne, Andy Reid, Duff, McGeady, Keane, Doyle and others would have been playing for top clubs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supreme feet View Post
    In my opinion, fifteen years ago, Given, Dunne, Andy Reid, Duff, McGeady, Keane, Doyle and others would have been playing for top clubs.
    disagree on this point dont think they would have been anywhere near top side on there performances this season.

    Duff on his day would alright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmet View Post

    And - hang on a sec - I've just seen that you're putting Phil Babb in the same bracket as Roy Keane, Liam Brady and John Giles ...
    Didnt you see my overhead kick against the czechs about 10 years ago ?!

    Shay Given has been world class for years for Ireland, and would get in the Arsenal side no problem. As for the rest...I think keane, Dunne and Duff are playing for clubs that reflect their ability.

    The potential is there with McGeady.
    Last edited by RivaldoBabb; 28/05/2008 at 11:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supreme feet View Post
    I don't really get the point of the 'tier one' debate. As I pointed out on another thread, the most successful European nations outside of the traditional big seven (Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Holland and England) do not have any abundance of players playing for G14 clubs. Sweden have only two (Mellberg and Ibrahimovic) yet have qualified for the last five tournaments. Poland only have Kusczak and Fabianski, yet have qualified for the last two. Croatia, one of the most successful European nations outside the big seven, do not have one G14 player in their Euro 2008 squad (though Eduardo is injured), and their playmaker, Modric, has just signed for Spurs. Same goes for Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Switzerland and Ukraine. The G14 clubs are dominated by South Americans, Africans and players from the 'Big Seven' in Europe. Mutu and Kezman, for example, have suffered the same fate as Duff, but remain key players for their countries.

    We are never going to have the same number of players at the top English clubs as we did in the seventies or eighties. But neither will England! Let's not forget that only thirteen years ago, Blackburn won the Premiership with a team of; Flowers, Kenna, Le Saux, Hendry, Pearce, Sherwood, Batty, Wilcox, Ripley, Shearer and Sutton. How many of those had successful international careers? European and English club football has changed a lot since then. International football hasn't - it's still the traditional powerhouses dominating, with us second/third ranked European nations battling each other for the same amount of qualification places. In my opinion, fifteen years ago, Given, Dunne, Andy Reid, Duff, McGeady, Keane, Doyle and others would have been playing for top clubs.
    Exactly. I sort of said something similar in the Ireland-Colombia thread.

    And to the guy who responded: Was Jeff Kenna better than Richard Dunne? Hardly. I think Supreme Feet is right in his assessment that we would have had a few players now playing in the big clubs in England back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishultra View Post
    Exactly. I sort of said something similar in the Ireland-Colombia thread.

    And to the guy who responded: Was Jeff Kenna better than Richard Dunne? Hardly. I think Supreme Feet is right in his assessment that we would have had a few players now playing in the big clubs in England back then.
    Different position. Im sorry but Dunne would not have made the Blackburn team ahead of Henry and Berg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernian View Post
    Duff on his day would alright
    Duff on his day did!
    Together with all our hearts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fergalr View Post
    Duff on his day did!
    I was referring to 15 years ago on present form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin77 View Post
    Have we got one?

    By Ďtier oneí I mean genuine top class player. A player that would grace any of the big four in England and their contemporaries in Europe. In the past we have always had at least a few of these in the team and in the glory days arguably a handful (McGrath, Houghton, Whelan, Brady etc).

    Now we really only have Robbie Keane. And he is playing at Spurs. He is not playing for one of the big four in England and itís arguable that he may not be a guaranteed starter if he was (donít go getting excited, I am not bashing himÖI am a fan). In the recent past we could have argued for Duffís inclusion in this and Given possiblyÖbut injuries have put paid to that. My own rose tinted glasses may see me want to include Dunne in this, however despite his reported availability the clubs rumoured to be interested in him are the Aston Villaís and Portsmouthís of this world. If he was really tier one class then surely Arsenal or maybe Liverpool or Chelsea would be interested.

    So who is our next Rolls Royce? Have we got one? Is there a once in a generation player in the pipeline? Who is he?

    I think its up to whoever wants the roll. Someone like McGeady, Hunt, Doyle... but they have to make a leap forward in the next season or two... They have to decide. I remember the pre-season when McManaman did it for Liverpool and when Duff took a step up for Ireland. You dont always see it though . We may be relying on the team being greater than the sum of the parts!

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