ESRI Sports Report

[gspain]

The goal of this research document appears to be to have the different sports squabbling small mindedly over crumbs instead of making a case for increased funding, over and above what the GAA already receive, to cover other sports activities (as already pointed out by DCSteve).

Define participation?
The ESRI report previous to this one had identified that to a GAA participant, membership of a club was more important and more popular amongst GAA participants than soccer.
Membership of a GAA club is 200% more popular with GAA participants that with soccer participants.

"They would also double count players who play gaelic and hurling."
What nonsense
There is no double counting, there is an adding up.
approx 13% participate in Gaelic Games
8% Gaelic football
5% hurling

Approx. the same number of people participate in GAA today as there were in the 1970´s.
The big difference today is the rapid growth in the number of Soccer participants over the past 20 years.
A side issue, why should the 10´s of millions spent on dog and horse racing be termed as sports funding?


I would have went with the don't know bit if I were you.

Catholic kids play both, Soccer and GAA. Protestant kids just play anything else but Gaelic games.
In School sports, GAA is as popular as Soccer at Grammer and Secondary school level in NI
Soccer is actually discriminated against in many (Protestant administered) grammar schools in favour of Cricket and Rugby.
After school, membership by GAA participants of a GAA club is high in proportion to soccer participants.
Public attendance in GAA sports is a multiple of local league soccer in the North.

Unless you have some figures I don't know about to support your statement about sports popularity in the 6 counties?
Sport and Community Relations
in NI

participant is somebody who plays on an organised team. This survey has been broadened to include the occasional round of golf as a golfer. However conssitent studies have shown that football is the most popular sport at a participant level since 1986.

GAA is clearly the most popular spectator sport in the country and on the island. It is well lamented here that your average football player/fan does not attend the domestic game. They would rather fly to Manchester/Liverpool or watch from a barstool.

Membership is more of an issue for rugby and GAA than for football. Typically only the players will be members of a football club. Even the manager and the water carrier etc would typically not be members. Rugby clubs and GAA clubs would have significant non playing membership numbers for social purposes and for access to tickets.

You can't add figures up because people could be double counted eg 13% play football and 8% play gaa does not mean 21% play one or the other as many will play both. The GAA are trying to discredit the report by adding their sports together and by using figures for the whole island.

Although I don't have the numbers ofr Northern Ireland I think it is a logical assumption to make that football would be significantly more popular there than GAA gevien the limited pool the GAA effectively chooses to pick from. Although GAA does appear to be hugely popular in large parts of rural NI.

This report clearly highlights that your average football club is getting a raw deal on funding.

[geysir]

participant is somebody who plays on an organised team. This survey has been broadened to include the occasional round of golf as a golfer. However conssitent studies have shown that football is the most popular sport at a participant level since 1986.

This is not about brownie points for the most popular team sport.
It is all about money, isnt it? access to grants, money for facilities, money for this and that.
Nobody is separating the funding that GAA receive for Hurling and that for Gaelic Football.
It is the one funding figure for both codes
Both Hurling and Gaelic figures together have a healthy stable participation figure.

GAA is clearly the most popular spectator sport in the country and on the island. It is well lamented here that your average football player/fan does not attend the domestic game. They would rather fly to Manchester/Liverpool or watch from a barstool.

The esri report is mainly about participants.
Though it might be useful if the figures for funding which go for spectator viewing could be separated from funding which benefits participants.

Membership is more of an issue for rugby and GAA than for football. Typically only the players will be members of a football club. Even the manager and the water carrier etc would typically not be members. Rugby clubs and GAA clubs would have significant non playing membership numbers for social purposes and for access to tickets

.
I don't think you quite understood.
Participants of sports who are also members of a club.
Twice as many GAA participants are members of the club.
I am not talking about social purposes nonsense or total club membership of all ages up to 95.
It is about the declared sport participants in the survey who are club members.
Clubs apply for funding (I assume).
Club membership does reflect a level of committment.

You can't add figures up because people could be double counted eg 13% play football and 8% play gaa does not mean 21% play one or the other as many will play both. The GAA are trying to discredit the report by adding their sports together and by using figures for the whole island.

What utter drivel is this.
Of course you can add GAA football and Hurling participants together.
Same playing field, same organization, often enough the same club.
We are talking about Sports participation and funding for that participation.

Although I don't have the numbers of Northern Ireland I think it is a logical assumption to make that football would be significantly more popular there than GAA gevien the limited pool the GAA effectively chooses to pick from. Although GAA does appear to be hugely popular in large parts of rural NI.

More guesswork than logic.
And faulty guesswork at that.
If you want the figures for school sports participants, here they are.
Grammar Schools.
Secondary Schools

It is interesting that you are persisiting with your assumed logic even after I provided the evidence to the contrary.
Sport in NI
From fig 2. "Gaelic sports are by some way the most popular in respect of organised participation".
(almost twice as popular with participants than soccer).

This report clearly highlights that your average football club is getting a raw deal on funding

Agreed and that is different than saying the GAA is getting too much.
If its the pie is too small to deal with the sound applications for funding, then the pie should be increased to reflect the growing need for sports facilities.

[Jinxy]

Maybe we're all missing the point here. To paraphrase Martin Breheny in yesterdays Indo, bring your kids to the local golf club or racecourse and ask them to keep an eye on them for a couple of hours and see where that gets you. The sports which generate the most benefit for society in terms of volunteerism, participation across all age groups and genders, community spirit and general social capital should get the lions share of funds, i.e. the team sports like soccer, GAA, rugby etc. It's up to the different bodies themselves to come up with novel ways of maintaining participation levels as kids develop into adults. Increase funding of individual sports by all means, but don't take it out of the team sports share.

[gspain]

[QUOTE=geysir;952369]

Grammar Schools.[/URL]
Secondary Schools

It is interesting that you are persisiting with your assumed logic even after I provided the evidence to the contrary.
Sport in NI
From fig 2. "Gaelic sports are by some way the most popular in respect of organised participation".
(almost twice as popular with participants than soccer).


Agreed and that is different than saying the GAA is getting too much.
If its the pie is too small to deal with the sound applications for funding, then the pie should be increased to reflect the growing need for sports facilities.

It is about money of course. It's about football clubs getting their fair share.

You can't add the figures up as the people will be double counted. You can only add them up if it is the only sport they play. As per your NI reference all the GAA sports are added together.

From my experience of football clubs you are not a member unless you play. I've coached, worked on committees and even refereed yet wes never a member of any of those clubs. the only club I was ever a member of was one with which I played. Now I'm a member of a rugby club for quite a few years despite never having played for them at any level.

You refer to school sports. i'm talking about general participation. I would guess that schools are skewed towards GAA and rugby.

[Mr A]

A side issue, why should the 10´s of millions spent on dog and horse racing be termed as sports funding?

I don't think this is a side issue at all. Horse and dog racing are massively profitable industries that are more pillars of the gambling industry than they are sports in my opinion, and they have little community or social benefit, indeed they could be argued to have the opposite effect. That they receive large amounts of sports funding seems totally wrong to me, more wrong than any imbalance between GAA and Football.

[geysir]

[QUOTE=gspain;952473]

You can't add the figures up as the people will be double counted. You can only add them up if it is the only sport they play

.
And where did you ever get the idea that participants in the survey could choose more than one sport they participate in.
Participants can choose only one sport.

As per your NI reference all the GAA sports are added together.

Do you still persist with this nonsense? there is not a straw in sight
Even if you take out the Hurling participants out of the total GAA figures of 52,000, Gaelic Football still swamps Soccer (23,000) as the Norths most popular participant sport.

From my experience of football clubs you are not a member unless you play. I've coached, worked on committees and even refereed yet wes never a member of any of those clubs. the only club I was ever a member of was one with which I played. Now I'm a member of a rugby club for quite a few years despite never having played for them at any level.

Interesting but irrelevant. This survey is about sports participants, not about members who do not participate.

You refer to school sports. i'm talking about general participation. I would guess that schools are skewed towards GAA and rugby

Why do you guess so much
I referred to school sports in NI as an extra bit of information.
I have already given the undisputed figures for General Sport Participation in NI

If you observe, Grammar school figures for sport participation in NI are actually skewed towards cricket, hockey and rugby, all games which are not followed up with after school in near the same % as Soccer and Gaelic sports.

[Straightstory]

'Even if you take out the Hurling participants out of the total GAA figures of 52,000, Gaelic Football still swamps Soccer (23,000) as the Norths most popular participant sport'. (QUOTE)

So soccer is the biggest participation sport in the Republic and Gaelic Games are the biggest participation sports in the North.
Some irony there, I feel...

[pete]

A blind monkey can tell football aka soccer is the most popular participation sport in the country. The fact that a lot people play 5 a-side & so are not members of a club should not distort that fact.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

So soccer is the biggest participation sport in the Republic and Gaelic Games are the biggest participation sports in the North.

Some irony there, I feel...

Because one jurisdiction has a 'native' Irish government and the other a devolved hames of a British government? Why the surprise? On this site, at least, soccer has always been exalted as an integral part of natural Irish culture and Gaelic football denigrated as a mere mish-mash of British games played by the intrinsically evil and/or the sportingly ignorant. These figures might be said, by someone with a mischievous bent, to bear that out.