AFC, FCUM promoted

[boovidge]

I But I don't have time for FC United or AFC Liverpool. They're just fake clubs formed by fans throwing their toys out of their prams because they don't like their club's new owners (presumably because they happen to be American - can anyone actually tell me what Glazer has done that's so bad?

Before Glazer took over and made the club his own, the club was a public company which meant the fans had a share (however small) in the club. Thats why the fans felt that their club had been taken away from them rather than just passing from one rich owner to another.

Add to this the debt put on the club, the almost instant rise in ticket prices (before Glazer, UTD's ticket prices were quite reasonable compared to alot of premiership clubs), the rumour that the ground was to be renamed and also Glazers record in the NFL (threatening to move his franchise elsewhere, rising ticket prices) and you have the reasons why FC United was formed.

I have alot of time for all fans clubs and their supporters. Clubs should be owned by the fans not by foreign billionaires with no sentimental attachment to the club who are willing to risk the clubs future in order to make a profit.

[Cymro]

I think that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. The problems have been building up for a decade - sitting at games, being thrown out and banned for standing, dead atmosphere, can't afford to bring the next generation of fans along. That's essentially what the fans of both clubs have gone after.

OK, but I do tend to think that there are plenty of local clubs that couyld have done with their support and that a new club based on the old club is basically just going to end up more or less the same as it anyway - eventually they'll all become full-time professional clubs and will act like businesses because it's the only way of moving up the pyramid, which ultimately will be the goal of the fans as the club rises and gains more support.

Clubs should ideally be owned by their fans I guess, but that's a very idealistic view and ignores the harsh realities of football. Nearly all clubs at all levels are board and chairman-run, from the Premiership and Championship right down to the semi-professional non-league pyramid. As long as money is involved, football clubs will rarely be truly democratic. MyFootballClub is a classic example of how unworkable such a club model is, in that I don't think anyone's seriously expecting Ebbsfleet not to encounter real admistrative problems now they've made the switch.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think you can call Ebbsfleet "unworkable" because you think it'll pan out that way.

Ultimately, a club is its fans. That's why you can't just go to a different club and pretend it'll be the same. That's why a group of fans from the same background and with the same history getting together makes sense.

Of course the problems you mentioned will be encountered. But that's no reason to dismiss the whole thing. Fan culture in England is dying at the top level, and something like this can help it a lot.

[Cymro]

I just can't see how Ebbsfleet, in spite of the cash boost they'll recieve from the move, will develop the necessary settled and motivated squad mentality to compete over the course of the season. How can you hope to be properly organised when the manager has practically no power and several thousand fans (many of whom will likely never watch the team) pick players over the internet? It'll end in tears, in my opinion.

[geysir]

OK, but I do tend to think that there are plenty of local clubs that couyld have done with their support and that a new club based on the old club is basically just going to end up more or less the same as it anyway - eventually they'll all become full-time professional clubs and will act like businesses because it's the only way of moving up the pyramid, which ultimately will be the goal of the fans as the club rises and gains more support.

Clubs should ideally be owned by their fans I guess, but that's a very idealistic view and ignores the harsh realities of football. Nearly all clubs at all levels are board and chairman-run, from the Premiership and Championship right down to the semi-professional non-league pyramid. As long as money is involved, football clubs will rarely be truly democratic. MyFootballClub is a classic example of how unworkable such a club model is, in that I don't think anyone's seriously expecting Ebbsfleet not to encounter real admistrative problems now they've made the switch.

Because AFCW has a chairman, same as any other club, does not mean it is constituted in the same way, far from it.

Re finances. I don't know of any club that the mantra 'money cures all problems' is not on top of the agenda

As it stands now AFC W have refused to relinquish control should investors want to buy themselves in.
"the Board would like to make it clear that it doesnot accept that giving up some control was necessary in order to make progress. Rather, the Board would be willing to consider and discuss what level of influence a potential investor would require,provided that this did not include giving up control of the club"

If that policy were to be changed, then the general body of the membership would have to agree to it at an AGM.

[pineapple stu]

I just can't see how Ebbsfleet, in spite of the cash boost they'll recieve from the move, will develop the necessary settled and motivated squad mentality to compete over the course of the season. How can you hope to be properly organised when the manager has practically no power and several thousand fans (many of whom will likely never watch the team) pick players over the internet? It'll end in tears, in my opinion.

Irrelevant. You're putting down one team based on what you think will happen to another.

[Cymro]

Stu, I was merely drawing a paralell. My point is that it's very difficult to successfully run a football club based on a democratic model where the club isn't owned by the chairman and board but instead owned directly by the fans.

Perhaps the most democratic model that might work is the fans electing the board and chairman, who then run the club. But I can't see thousands of fans co-owning and running a club, hence no truly democratic model will work.

I'm not necessarily saying that AFC Wimbledon/FC United/AFC Liverpool etc will fail, merely that their protests will not lead to them getting full control over their club, like some of them think they should.

Anyway, you challenged me on Ebbsfleet rather than the other clubs in your previous post, by saying "I don't think you can call Ebbsfleet "unworkable" because you think it'll pan out that way.". Hence, I was really more talking about Ebbsfleet than the other 'fans clubs'.

[Schumi]

Perhaps the most democratic model that might work is the fans electing the board and chairman, who then run the club.

Isn't that how all members' clubs operate?

I don't think you can call it undemocratic as it's effectively the same way as democratic countries operate (government elected by the people run the country).

[Cymro]

Yes, and we all know people never moan about the government.......

[holidaysong]

AFC Wimbledon are 3 points clear at the top of the Blue Square South with two games to go. They are away to second placed Hampton & Richmond this weekend. A draw for Wimbledon will all but guarantee their promotion to the Blue Square Premier as they are 13 goals better off on goal difference.

Meanwhile FC United, also with two games to go, lie one point outside the playoff spots in the Northern (Unibond) Premier League.

[HarpoJoyce]

Both MK Dons and Bury Town, both linked to either fan club, are in the play-off positions of their league Divisions aswell.

I was happy Wimbledon moved to where they are now, they were looking for Virgin terrority for many years. And were a great example of an anti-establishment club. BUt I couldn't support them because of their threat to Dublin.

[pineapple stu]

The team you shouldn't be supporting is MK Dons, not AFC Wimbledon. It was the former Wimbledon owners who made that threat, and followed it through in a way by moving to Milton Keynes. It's got nothing to do with AFCW.

[holidaysong]

AFC Wimbledon are as good as promoted (3 points and 13 goals ahead of 2nd place with one game left) to the Blue Square Premier so congratulations to them!

[holidaysong]

FC United just missed out on the play-off spots today. However, as expected AFC Wimbledon have won the Blue Square South.