Derry City applying for Grant Aid

Man ,this thread IMO is just plain boring, firstly I make no apology for the fact that I would prefer to see Derry City vacate to LOI and have frankly no interest in where they might go.

However since they are legitimate members of the LOI, see no reason as to why they shouldn't apply for a grant from the FAI or the Irish Govt , don't agree with it but respect our (ROI) democratic process.

However my main point is that nearly all the numerous pages written about this smack IMO of small town small mindeness ...by that I mean isn't it time for everyone to take a step back and at least acknowledge that a huge amount of the infrastructure built in the ROI over the las 20 years has been partly/fully funded by handouts oops I mean grants from the EU...ie we in the ROI have for many have been exceptionally good at playing the grant system within the EU.... so if we now have to chuck a few euro in the direction of Derry City so what we can well afford it.

Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

Man ,this thread IMO is just plain boring, firstly I make no apology for the fact that I would prefer to see Derry City vacate to LOI and have frankly no interest in where they might go.

However since they are legitimate members of the LOI, see no reason as to why they shouldn't apply for a grant from the FAI or the Irish Govt , don't agree with it but respect our (ROI) democratic process.

However my main point is that nearly all the numerous pages written about this smack IMO of small town small mindeness ...by that I mean isn't it time for everyone to take a step back and at least acknowledge that a huge amount of the infrastructure built in the ROI over the las 20 years has been partly/fully funded by handouts oops I mean grants from the EU...ie we in the ROI have for many have been exceptionally good at playing the grant system within the EU.... so if we now have to chuck a few euro in the direction of Derry City so what we can well afford it.

Why'd you vote no then?

Originally Posted by osarusan

To try and say you are owed a favour for supporting them, or that "we should all stick together even if I think it's wrong" is childish in the extreme.

I don't think we are owed a favour at all. But I do think that football clubs on this island should stick together and try and get as much money out of Governmental sources as possible. I'd be delighted if this was any other club.

Originally Posted by Krstic

Why was your 'Slip' the Bogside??

Why not Foyle Springs, Culmore or Carnhill??

Correct me if wrong, but apart from recent political tensions, wasn't the general area (like Waterside) already known by that name in the 17th century?

Originally Posted by Gather round

Correct me if wrong, but apart from recent political tensions, wasn't the general area (like Waterside) already known by that name in the 17th century?

The Bogside was the name given the area which was once part of the River Foyle, and subsequently had very boggy ground. Now it is a specific area of the Cityside, which the Brandywell is close to.

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

(Btw, I am not defending the unambitious and unimaginative stance of many IL clubs, who don't deserve a brass farthing of anyones money. But that's for another thread)

Then why attack a club for being ambitious and imaginative? Let's face it - this is football. Whatever any club can do to improve themselves, they should attempt. Ealing, the way you talk if Glentoran (somehow) found themselves in a likewise situation, you'd wish them to hand the money back at the detriment of the club and the East Belfast area. Or at least invite IL chairmen to queue round the ground waiting on their 'fair share'...

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Finally, how could it cost £15m to build a stadium of only 8000 capacity?! surely double that for that cost.....plus shouldn't derry go for at least 10k...

As has been said, it's not just a stadium. The Brandywell Project incorporates a number of business units and municipal leisure facilities (including numerous third generation pitches, to be used by the local community). The work itself also involves moving the pitch a distance away from where it currently sits on site amongst other construction issues. The plans are online and have been linked to further back on this thread.

And what's the point of having a 10,000 capacity stadium only half-full (at best) every week? We're walking before we run - if we can fill 8,000 seats reguarly we'll be doing a hell of a job.

Originally Posted by Gather round

Correct me if wrong, but apart from recent political tensions, wasn't the general area (like Waterside) already known by that name in the 17th century?

The Bogside is and always has been the area just outside the walls.

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And since we can not reasonably prevent Dublin from funding DCFC should they choose to, then the only way to close this loophole is by making membership of the IL a pre-requisite for receiving Stormont funding.

I'd agree that we would struggle to get funding from the IFA without IFA membership but I'd doubt the legality of refusing central government money on that basis.

How exactly could the DSD or other agencies make IL membership a requirement for a regeneration scheme? It would be like trying to claim that anyone who took advantage of the government investment in Laganside had to employ people solely from Northern Ireland.

Originally Posted by osarusan

You can't be serious. Derry are looking for 10 million to help build new facilities. You can't see how that gives them an advantage over other clubs who don't get 10 million quid to build facilities?

Then other clubs should start asking why they arent 'getting' 10 million to improve their facilities. and then maybe ask do they need it. and then maybe start looking for it. why criticise derry for other clubs lack of ambition, or lack of need for vastly improved facilities. the brandywell as it stands is a disgrace. it is 2008, and in some parts of the ground you have to pee against a wall outside to go to the toilet. it will take a lot of money to simply get the ground up to a decent modern standard.

As for advantages? How much are bohs getting for daymont? what do cork city's owners pump into them? what funding do other LoI clubs get from local councils? simply put, we dont have the same avenues of resources available to other clubs in the republic of ireland, for a myriad of reasons. and bear in mind, this proposal also includes non-dcfc related commercial facilities and other structures, available for use by others. factor in a proper stadium for fans, proper, modern team facilities, car parking for both the stadium and retail units, utility installation, land drainage, and other general construction items, and ten million might not be enough.

Despite what you light like to believe, this situation is by no means unique to Derry City.

Never said it was, but conversely my ultimate interest is in how DCFC/BPT are going to improve things for DCFC. my point is this. i DO NOT disagree or oppose any club in ireland, north or south, getting funding from whatever source is possible. if lurgan celtic applied to the republic of ireland government for funding, say on a cross community, cross border initiative, i would support them to the hilt. if fanad utd wanted to get funding off the new north-west super council when it is introduced, i would support them to the hilt.
domestic football in ireland is pretty unigue in its disadvantages, in that with a small population base the majority of football fans choose to follow a league in another country. then we have competition with the gaa, not only for fans and spectators, but also for participants.
so anything that in some way, no matter how big and important, or small and trivial, that improves the position of domestic football is to be lauded and supported.
There has been a lot posted about how derry cant do this or do that. but i have yet to see any clear rational logical arguments to support this.
Fact 1: Derry need a new stadium. badly. if anything, the ground has gotten worse since our departure from the IL and entry into LoI. how does modernising our facilities give us an unfair advantage over anyone? if anything, it should bring us on an even keel.
Fact 2. Construction work is expensive. very, especially concrete related works.
Fact 3. Derry have no other proper sources of income other than its fan base. we have no social club, we dont own our ground, and we have no rich businessman or consortium backing us. funds available from local councils would maybe get you half a house built, never mind an 8,000 seater capacity stadium. (And yes, I know this is not unique). Public funding is by and large essential to this project's successful completion. (And yes, this is a problem inherent in the north's society - an over reliance on the public sector, but what can ye do?)
Fact 4. DCFC's status is pretty unique in ireland. we sit astride the border in one of the most deprived areas in the UK. we are based in one jurisdiction and play in another. our city's population expend considerable sums of money in donegal on a weekly basis, as do donegal's citizens in derry. we should, can and will look to every avenue of finance for possible funding. to not even consider the possibility is folly.

Are people afraid the money will be ploughed into players and wages? do traveeling fans actually enjoy coming to the sub-par stadium that is the brandywell? and i dont mean the craic and banter between fans, or any time spent in the town afterwards, or whatever. i mean the actual stadium itself. does anyone believe that this is acceptable for any club to have as a stadium?
so my question is this - what are people actually afraid about if derry secure funding and modernise their facilities?

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Disingenuous. I have not said that Dublin must not fund DCFC - that is for them to decide. What I am objecting to is DCFC considering they are entitled to two sets of Govt. funding which other teams in Ireland cannot access. Further, I object to DCFC receiving Stormont money (not IFA money) when they do not play in the IL.

Back to your Shams analogy: how would ROI taxpayers feel if they 50% funded SRFC (along with SDCC), Shams built a shiny new stadium and went off and played in a League in another jurisdiction?

Do the Leinster, Munster and Connaght rugby teams play in a European league and have also got funding from the R.O.I. government?

I think you'll find they have and no-one ever complains.

Having read this whole thread, it seems that you EG have not grasped that Derry City FC do play in N.I......pay their VAT and taxes like every other team based in N.I albeit we do pay a lot more as 17.5% of an average gate of over 3,000 raises more than eight of the bottom average att teams in the IL premier division put together!

Your own club for instance were out numbered 4 to 1 at home against us at our recent SSC game at the Oval. That says a lot for how great the IL is that you want us to came back to.

Back to the why Derry are able to apply to Stormont for 1/3 funding. As I said we pay VAT and taxes in NORTHERN IRELAND........are based in NORTHERN IRELAND........play in NORTHERN IRELAND so why shouldn't we try and get funding from the NORTHERN IRELAND government???????????

Because we are an F.A.I member we are also able to apply to them for funding which is frankly none of your buisness as F.A.I. funding has nothing to do with your domestic league or wont affect it.

So to sum it up..........Derry applied for £10 mil, 5 from their government and 5 from their sports governing body. Whats the problem with that?

Having read the ILS forum on this subject it has to be seen to be believed!

I dont care what derry may get however if it was to eat up all the capitol budget for soccer in the roi for that year i would be very miffed.I wondor how much support Derry get from the fai for funding if they are moving to the new ail with platinum one , none i would guess

Originally Posted by passerrby

I dont care what derry may get however if it was to eat up all the capitol budget for soccer in the roi for that year i would be very miffed.I wondor how much support Derry get from the fai for funding if they are moving to the new ail with platinum one , none i would guess

So you either care or you dont care....make your mind up. If you dont care why did you vote no?

Read my post I dont care if you get Money I do however care if if comes from the tiny budget soccer will be getting and as for why i voted no I suspect that thats where it would come from.

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Every other NI football club pays its taxes to Stormont. They also play in the IL. DCFC do not.

Why should membership of the Irish league be a pre-requisite to funding from Stormont ? Seriously - this is the most bonkers of some frankly bonkers points you've made...

As a previous poster asked - should Ulster GAA clubs now join the Irish league if they want Stormont financial assistance ? After all - they're affiliated directly to a sporting body out-with of Northern Ireland, even though they're based in the north and pay taxes in the north....

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As I also said elesewhere, I would in principle accept a combination of FAI and Stormont funding as an alternative to IFA and Dublin funding.

Why thank you kindly, good sir.

I commend your magnanimity ; your charity ; your indefatigability...

I'm off to phone Brandywell properties and tell them we're alright - Ealing Green has declared what he is happy to accept in the negotiations....

Originally Posted by Gather round

Correct me if wrong, but apart from recent political tensions, wasn't the general area (like Waterside) already known by that name in the 17th century?

Holy fcuk......

You don't even deserve an answer to that. Lie down and take a rest....

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I have never qustioned the substance of the application, rather the principle whereby DCFC should be uniquely privileged to receive double-funding, inc. money from Stormont funds which must inevitably deprive NI clubs who are still playing in the IL.

Firstly - what part of the very clear fact that it's not double-funding are you struggling to grasp? A third plus a third is not 'times two'

Secondly - bar an absurd belief that Stormont funding should only be accessed through Irish league membership, your entire paper-thin arguement is based on a perceived fear that funding for the DCFC project will deprive other IL clubs of money. How do you know this will this be so ? How do you know that any Stormont cash for this project won't come from the Regeneration or Regional Development pots ? Or other post ? What evidence is there that it will not only come entirely from the 'sporting' pot in general - but more specifically, from the part of the pot that is clearly marked 'Funding for Irish League club stadium developments, and nothing else.....' ?

Finally - if half the energy you've put into clinging to an absurd line in an arguement on this thread had instead been diverted into harranging the Northern authorities to provide mopre fundinng for Irish league clubs, you'd probably have raised most of the additional £5m were requestign already, and thereby saved your precious £8m that we probably won't be accessing anyway. But I guess ts easier for IL clubs/fans to complain about someone else benefitting rather than do something to improve their own posiiton...

Originally Posted by osarusan

You can't be serious. Derry are looking for 10 million to help build new facilities. You can't see how that gives them an advantage over other clubs who don't get 10 million quid to build facilities?
.....
Despite what you light like to believe, this situation is by no means unique to Derry City.

Any Club is entitled to apply for funding once they fulfill the criteria.
What advantage do you think Derry have over other clubs?
If another club's members want to get off their ásses and submit a structured plan then they won't be at a disadvantage, will they?

Do you object to all clubs applying for funding because it gives them an unfair advantage should they receive that funding over clubs that have not applied for funding?
The normal applic. for funding looks for 2/3 grants.

You object to Derry receiving a small 1/3 of funding from the Republic.
Some NI people object to Derry receiving a small 1/3 of funding from the NIA.
What is your alternative for Derry City? because by your logic they are fxcked for funding, your objections to their funding are just as valid as a Northerners objection. Therefore by your logic they don't deserve any funding from any place.

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Firstly - what part of the very clear fact that it's not double-funding are you struggling to grasp? A third plus a third is not 'times two'

It's obvious that when EG talks about double-funding, he's talking about getting funds from 2 different governments from the same project. He's not talking about percentages of funding.

Steve, you didn't answered my question - if the money is to come from the FAI coffers, as you say it is, has that money been earmarked specifically for football-related development, or will it be used for other parts of the regeneration project?