Sadlier

**GavinZac** · 25/04/2008, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by mark12345

I played in the League of Ireland back in the 80's... it has not changed as far as I can see in all those years.

Right. Keep telling yourself that, yeah if you'd been around 20 years later you'd be earning thousands of euros a week to play professional football in all seater stadiums in June. Bitter at all?

I mean for crying out loud, if I thought you were on a wind-up I'd be telling you how bad you are at it. Ideas of your own? I'd be glad to hear them, but frankly, I'd imagine I'll be treating them with all the reverence I'd treat advise from my mother on how to dress. That is the relevance you have if you think that, so to speak, the 80s are "in".

I'll say it again - I would love to be proved wrong about the game at home, but until our teams start qualifying for the middle rounds of the Uefa Cup or the knockout stages of the Champions League, then how (as much as you lads try to persuade us otherwise) can they be taken seriously?

Taken seriously? What, are they some sort of joke because they aren't in the last 16 of the Champions League? The knock out phases of the CL this year are remarkable only in their familiarity. 4 English clubs, 3 Spanish, 3 Italian, one a piece from Germany and France and the token participants from Southern Europe. The 'surprise package' consisted of Celtic, former champions. Does this mean that outside the established ranks of the latter stages of the CL, everywhere else is a joke? Do fans in Prague, in Brussels, in Warsaw, in Stockholm, in Vienna, do they call their teams a joke? Is modern football, outside of perhaps 50 clubs with any remote chance of qualifying for these stages, worthless and rubbish. No, it is not. Fans in those cities support their club in their droves, because they are football fans, true fans, proud of their allegiance in bad times and in good because they are proud of the team that represents them not ignorant sheep with some facade of expertise based upon what is fed to them via their pundit of choice.

The "malaise" of Irish football is not English football. It is the innate ability of the Irish to hate almost everything about themselves whilst crowing about how patriotic they are.

**SkStu** · 25/04/2008, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Taken seriously? What, are they some sort of joke because they aren't in the last 16 of the Champions League? The knock out phases of the CL this year are remarkable only in their familiarity. 4 English clubs, 3 Spanish, 3 Italian, one a piece from Germany and France and the token participants from Southern Europe. The 'surprise package' consisted of Celtic, former champions. Does this mean that outside the established ranks of the latter stages of the CL, everywhere else is a joke? Do fans in Prague, in Brussels, in Warsaw, in Stockholm, in Vienna, do they call their teams a joke? Is modern football, outside of perhaps 50 clubs with any remote chance of qualifying for these stages, worthless and rubbish. No, it is not. Fans in those cities support their club in their droves, because they are football fans, true fans, proud of their allegiance in bad times and in good because they are proud of the team that represents them not ignorant sheep with some facade of expertise based upon what is fed to them via their pundit of choice.

The "malaise" of Irish football is not English football. It is the innate ability of the Irish to hate almost everything about themselves whilst crowing about how patriotic they are.

superb.

**WoodquayBoy** · 25/04/2008, 7:21 AM

GavinZac, forget post of the month, that gets my vote for post of the year.
Extremely well said sir, I applaud you.

**Straightstory** · 25/04/2008, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

The "malaise" of Irish football is not English football. It is the innate ability of the Irish to hate almost everything about themselves whilst crowing about how patriotic they are.

Particularly true, I think.
Mark - how Irish teams are going to qualify for the Group Stages of the Champions League on average League attendances of about 2,000 people? Any ideas?

**TonyD** · 25/04/2008, 12:49 PM

Mark,

Since you addressed your reply to me and Joey, let me respond.

1. It was yourself who said you were basing your judgement on the highlights of 4 games. (no -one said you weren't entitled to an opinion btw)

2. If you're seriously claiming that things haven't improved here since the 1980's then you have a real credibility problem. The only thing that hasn't improved in that time are the crowds. Facilities are better, pitches are (by and large) better, there is a better(and fitter) standard of player, the league is more competitive - as proof, Shamrock Rovers were able to win 4 titles in a row in the 80's, plus 3/4 cups, only Shelbourne and Pats have been able to retain the title in the last 15 years.

3. (To echo Gavin), are you seriously saying that the only teams who can be taken seriously are those who qualify for the Champions league group stages and the latter stages of the UEFA Cup ? (Are you Eamon Dunphy ?) That leaves an awful lot of teams out.

4. You claimed there was nothing, even in the highlights to get excited about - Did you see Keith Faheys goal against Bohs ? How many goals of that quality were scored in the 80's. And if you can't see that more teams are trying to play better football now, then, as I said before, you need to see more games. Or perhaps you have a rose tinted view of the past when you were playing ?

5. If you have constructive ideas, by all means lets hear them. My own would start with not running down our own teams beacuse they can't reach the heights of Barca, Real Madrid, or Man U. Newsflash, they never will. Not with the level of finance available here. However, football at EL level can still be perfectly enjoyable(and very serious btw). If we can get that message across to peope then we might be getting somewhere. It's about having pride in your own team, not constantly comparing yourself, in unfavourable and unfair terms, to the big boys.

I'm not saying all is wonderful with the league, and I don't believe anyone else here would claim that either. Of course we have a long way to go. It doesn't happen overnight though, and the first thing we need is just a little bit of belief and support from people.

**CvilleRovers** · 25/04/2008, 12:59 PM

sadlier seems to be an attention seeking ****, dont pay any attention to him

**Dodge** · 25/04/2008, 8:36 PM

Originally Posted by CvilleRovers

sadlier seems to be an attention seeking ****, dont pay any attention to him

How so?

**mark12345** · 25/04/2008, 8:37 PM

Hello lads, it's the 'blow in' here. Yeah, sorry about that earlier post, I just base my knowledge of Eircom League football on the highlights of four games. I had never seen a game before, and never even set foot in Ireland. I usually make all my judgements in life based on such scant information...........

Now for reality. I played in the League of Ireland back in the 80's, represented the country in the Schools World Cup during the same period, have followed the game at home all my life and the national team for the duration, and watch as much English football (not by choice mind you) as the next guy. D'ya think that qualifies me to have the right to an opinion, slightly more than say... a blow in?

The thing about the Eircom League is that it has not changed as far as I can see in all those years. I started the original post by questioning my own cynicism and hoping to be proved wrong. But on the evidence of four games, and I've seen a few since (and let's be honest they are the highlights, ie. the best of what was on view) there is absolutely nothing to get excited about and plenty to be worried about.

I'll say it again - I would love to be proved wrong about the game at home, but until our teams start qualifying for the middle rounds of the Uefa Cup or the knockout stages of the Champions League, then how (as much as you lads try to persuade us otherwise) can they be taken seriously?

As far as I'm concerned English football is the big malaise - simply because it is useless beyond the four big clubs and our kids at home mimick it all day long (at least that's what it seems like to me). Hence the low standard of the Eircom League.

Funny that most people who trumpet the Eircom League have this deep hatred of the English game - that hatred seems far stronger on the surface than their affection for the Irish game? Maybe it's just me. I've no love for English football - it's not half as good as they make it out to be - and I'd take the far more attractive Spanish, German, Argentinian leagues over it any day of the week.

Now for the hard part. If either of you are interested in talking about constructive ideas for the game at home, I'm all ears. It's so easy to slag one another off but I'm more interested in getting a good dialogue going about the problems that beset the Irish game and hopefully contributing to solving those problems. I have a few ideas of my own - how about you lads?

**p�l-dcfc** · 25/04/2008, 8:44 PM

Twice?

**Jerry The Saint** · 25/04/2008, 9:31 PM

Originally Posted by p�l-dcfc

Twice?

20 hours after the first time?

Must have forgotten which forum he was trolling on...

**shelbourne1904** · 26/04/2008, 2:34 AM

Originally Posted by nijboyle

Isnt he working as a journalist now he knacked his knee, anyone know where?

Who cares where. Once he isa journo he cannot be trusted as his sole

reason to be is to sell papers no matter what the content!!!!

**depor** · 28/04/2008, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Taken seriously? What, are they some sort of joke because they aren't in the last 16 of the Champions League? The knock out phases of the CL this year are remarkable only in their familiarity. 4 English clubs, 3 Spanish, 3 Italian, one a piece from Germany and France and the token participants from Southern Europe. The 'surprise package' consisted of Celtic, former champions. Does this mean that outside the established ranks of the latter stages of the CL, everywhere else is a joke? Do fans in Prague, in Brussels, in Warsaw, in Stockholm, in Vienna, do they call their teams a joke? Is modern football, outside of perhaps 50 clubs with any remote chance of qualifying for these stages, worthless and rubbish. No, it is not. Fans in those cities support their club in their droves, because they are football fans, true fans, proud of their allegiance in bad times and in good because they are proud of the team that represents them not ignorant sheep with some facade of expertise based upon what is fed to them via their pundit of choice.

The "malaise" of Irish football is not English football. It is the innate ability of the Irish to hate almost everything about themselves whilst crowing about how patriotic they are.

potm/ year

**TonyD** · 28/04/2008, 8:12 PM

Originally Posted by mark12345

Hello lads, it's the 'blow in' here.

Hi Roddy, I've only just twigged it was you

**GavinZac** · 29/04/2008, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

superb.

Originally Posted by WoodquayBoy

GavinZac, forget post of the month, that gets my vote for post of the year.
Extremely well said sir, I applaud you.

Originally Posted by depor

potm/ year

Only a couple of days left

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=87078&page=2

**Erstwhile B�z** · 29/04/2008, 1:50 PM

It was good up until the end bit, GavinZac -- you seem to have mistakenly taken the final sentence from a rant about the decline of Irish.

**GavinZac** · 29/04/2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Erstwhile B�z

It was good up until the end bit, GavinZac -- you seem to have mistakenly taken the final sentence from a rant about the decline of Irish.

Oh yeah, because I'm so patriotic, right?

**mark12345** · 30/04/2008, 12:23 AM

Ease up with the missiles lads, will ya. I was only expressing an opinion about the game I knew back then, versus the one I see today. I saw about thirty minutes of highlights and had heard great things about the Irish game - was just a bit disappointed but in all fairness I don't claim to know nearly as much as you lads or indeed anyone living at home.

Gavin you asked me what I would do to improve the Eircom League. Fair enough, I'd start right away with the coaching. If I had a penny to spend on improving the league I'd bring in ten or twelve foreign coaches from South America to teach our kids.

From what I've seen of futsal it has improved the game everywhere its played, and that should stand to the Irish game in years to come, but for now we could use those foreign coaches. Why? Because, for whatever reason, they produce players who are far more technical and who stand the test of time, and make more than a few bob on the tansfer market.

I would also like to think that our teams could do as well in Europe, in the next two or three years, as the likes of Rosenborg, Brondby, Gothenburg and Larsson's team (name escapes me at present). That would be progress in my book, and those Scandinavian clubs should be the barometer by by which we measure the progress of the Eircom League. Both of you would agree on that would you not?

An all-Ireland league would be great but........ it's a big but!

Someone else asked how do you plan for progress on gates of 2000 - it's as simple as starting with good coaching (with all due respect to Fenlon, Richardson, Kenny etc.) and producing a better footballer. Success will breed success as we all know.

Look, I'm looking forward to the day when the Irish manager can pick the best of the Eircom League and put them in the national team where they'd be able to do a job for him and make us proud.

**GavinZac** · 30/04/2008, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by mark12345

Gavin you asked me what I would do to improve the Eircom League. Fair enough, I'd start right away with the coaching. If I had a penny to spend on improving the league I'd bring in ten or twelve foreign coaches from South America to teach our kids.

There's actually quite a lot of funding going into the schoolboys teams facilities. Providing a smooth path from schoolboys to seniors is the obvious goal. While I'm all for an adoption of 'smarter' play, what role would 12 brazilian coaches have? are they being assigned to any particular ELOI clubs, where to be honest they'll most likely be too late to catch the player's they'd be interested in, or are they rotating around the largest participation sport in this country?

That would be progress in my book, and those Scandinavian clubs should be the barometer by by which we measure the progress of the Eircom League. Both of you would agree on that would you not?

Given the recent results Irish teams have had against Swedish teams (from a country with a population twice the size of our own) I'd have to differ with you. If we can comfortably beat the likes of Malmo and Goteborg, and beat/contest with AIK and Hammerby, I think we're doing ok. In fact, at the moment we're punching above our weight which is dragging us slowly but surely up the UEFA co-efficients table toward the promised land of seeding.