Tardelli to have a look at Saints trio

**Dr. Ogba** · 16/04/2008, 12:51 PM

excellent post dk, totally agree...

**Dodge** · 16/04/2008, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

ps to Dodge - re: o'donovan.. surely he was just showing improvement - he was only a young lad..he was head and shoulders above the rest that half season

I disagree. I'm not saying he wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't a different class. Likewise Murphy. Never stood out in our league.

And I'll say it again. I don't think any LOI players are good enough to be an Irish international squad. Tardelli was at last nights game. If himself, Trap or Brady continue to monitor the local lads, nobody can have any qualms with their selections

**Kingdom** · 16/04/2008, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I disagree. I'm not saying he wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't a different class. Likewise Murphy. Never stood out in our league.

And I'll say it again. I don't think any LOI players are good enough to be an Irish international squad. Tardelli was at last nights game. If himself, Trap or Brady continue to monitor the local lads, nobody can have any qualms with their selections

Nope and with the Summer season there can be no excuses either.
One of the issues I have of the whole debate is that its one thing saying "x is great" or "y is crap" but proposals have to be put into perspective. There are 2/3 maybe 4 problem positions in our first 11, nevermind the squad! We have a serious issue at Left full, centre back, right midfield and to a lesser extent centre midfield.
I would like the followers of the league to propose players for those positions that would be capable of at least filling a squad place. That way we could at least compare like with like and evaluate whether Joxer Kelly or Keith Fahey are more worthy of a squad place than Sean Scannell, or say Glenn Whelan?
Something I just thought of there. Would it be appropriate to compare Fahey with Andy Reid? I'd warn anyone who views Fahey as being a reject to discount those theories. I know for fact that he asked to leave Arsenal (similar to McShane at United) due to Wengers purchasing (or attempted signing) of every top underage international midfielder at the time. Call it disillusioned if you will.

**dynamo kerry** · 16/04/2008, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by finnpark

He certainly hasn't started 17 premiership games, I doubt that he has even played in 17 premiership games. 0 goals and golden oldie David Connoly also gets a call up. Brady doesn't eircom league players

NI had 3 Irish League players playing in their last win and they are ranked higher than us, while the EL is ranked higher than the IL

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_de...playerid=47075

started 5 played in 17 altogether. no goals though - you're right there.

who are the players in the senior squad from the irish league. I know they had a few in the u21s?

I know a lot of their squad are at clubs like scunthorpe, doncaster etc

**ifk101** · 16/04/2008, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_de...playerid=47075

started 5 played in 17 altogether. no goals though - you're right there.

who are the players in the senior squad from the irish league. I know they had a few in the u21s?

No offence Dynamo Kerry but the Irish League is a different kettle of fish altogether.

**finnpark** · 16/04/2008, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

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who are the players in the senior squad from the irish league. I know they had a few in the u21s?

Gault, Thompson and Manus.

**dynamo kerry** · 16/04/2008, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by ifk101

No offence Dynamo Kerry but the Irish League is a different kettle of fish altogether.

I'm not sure what you mean.... I'm suggesting that players from the irish league being in NI 's squad is meaningless as they have a heavy percentage of players from smaller 'less good' sides. As such it's no so impressive to have players from their own league.

do you agree or disagree and why?

**finnpark** · 16/04/2008, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

from smaller 'less good' sides.

But these players have outperformed the ROI team over the past 5 years

Like I said its better to play for Man Utd ladies than an eircom league side

**geysir** · 16/04/2008, 1:39 PM

Tardelli has gone on record as saying that if a player is good enough then he is good enough to be called up, regardless of the level of competition he plays at.
He has gone to the game, observed the players in question, lets wait and see.
I'd hope he would attend a few more LOI games.

**ifk101** · 16/04/2008, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

I'm not sure what you mean.... I'm suggesting that players from the irish league being in NI 's squad is meaningless as they have a heavy percentage of players from smaller 'less good' sides. As such it's no so impressive to have players from their own league.

do you agree or disagree and why?

I just think we should put out the best side regardless of who they play or what league they play in. If the new management come to the conclusion (after an objective consideration) that no LOI players are good enough for the international team then so be it - after all we all want to see the team win matches and to do so we need to put out our strongest side. I can't comment on the NI situation but there is a core of professional clubs in the LOI that potentially can provide players for the international squad and I think the future development of the league would be helped if it was known that league players are being considered for the international team.

**youngirish** · 16/04/2008, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kingdom

I'd warn anyone who views Fahey as being a reject to discount those theories. I know for fact that he asked to leave Arsenal (similar to McShane at United) due to Wengers purchasing (or attempted signing) of every top underage international midfielder at the time. Call it disillusioned if you will.

Yeah that's all very well and good but why did he fail at Aston Villa?

**Dodge** · 16/04/2008, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Yeah that's all very well and good but why did he fail at Aston Villa?

because he can be arsehole at times.

Or at least he used to be. He's definitely matured

**Kingdom** · 16/04/2008, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Yeah that's all very well and good but why did he fail at Aston Villa?

I'm not willing to say why, but someone alluded to earlier on that he's more mature now and his performances are starting to show that. Nothing more to add to that.

**tetsujin1979** · 16/04/2008, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by finnpark

He certainly hasn't started 17 premiership games, I doubt that he has even played in 17 premiership games. 0 goals and golden oldie David Connoly also gets a call up. Brady doesn't eircom league players

NI had 3 Irish League players playing in their last win and they are ranked higher than us, while the EL is ranked higher than the IL

From http://www.chatsoccer.net/irishabroa...5&seasonID=137
5 starts (3 at home, 2 away) - all but one in the Premiership, the other in the FA Cup
came off the bench 11 times (6 at home, 5 away), 16 appearances in total - all but one in the Premiership, the other in the League Cup

**Bluebeard** · 16/04/2008, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Tardelli has gone on record as saying that if a player is good enough then he is good enough to be called up, regardless of the level of competition he plays at.
He has gone to the game, observed the players in question, lets wait and see.
I'd hope he would attend a few more LOI games.

I'm inclined to accept whatever Tardelli is likely to say, to be honest. I trust him to be honest and objective in his views, and not corrupted by years of the national broadcaster promoting the game in England and Scotland. My suspicion is that he will be the chief eye of Trappatoni, and I am hoping that he will be keeping an eye on the roots of the game in Ireland and at youth level. If he goes to one or two games involving top LOI clubs every month or so, I will not complain if no LOI player is called up.

And I think many LOI fans would be happy if there was an eye being cast over the league by those in charge. The problem is that we have always felt that the standard approach was to ignore the local game on the basis of the fact that it wasn't as lauded, or convenient, as in England - most of our managers since Jack have been based in England - with the exception of Kerr, they normally have never played in Ireland, Mick being the only one in our history, I think, to have played on the continent.

Indeed, following this on, I would like to know if it was advantage or disadvantage to ply your trade as a footballer on the continent almost as much as in Ireland? I seem to recall that Mick's book suggested that he moved back to England to stay in contention, Moran had a similar experience I think. Mick Robinson, and Ian Harte made far fewer appearances when playing in the best league in Europe at the time, and I seem to recall that when Cas was knocking goals in all around in France, he was continually falling behind in the pecking order to goalscorers of great renoun like Tommy Coyne and Niall "All fall down" Quinn. John Aldridge seemed to be the only one to be guaranteed a starting place while on the continent in Jack's time.

Hopefully, if not Brady or Trapp, at least Tardelli will make a few games here a year, and, as he said, if the players are good enough, then they get their chance. And if not, well, we start asking different questions.

**mypost** · 16/04/2008, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebeard

Indeed, following this on, I would like to know if it was advantage or disadvantage to ply your trade as a footballer on the continent almost as much as in Ireland? I seem to recall that Mick's book suggested that he moved back to England to stay in contention, Moran had a similar experience I think. Mick Robinson, and Ian Harte made far fewer appearances when playing in the best league in Europe at the time, and I seem to recall that when Cas was knocking goals in all around in France, he was continually falling behind in the pecking order to goalscorers of great renoun like Tommy Coyne and Niall "All fall down" Quinn. John Aldridge seemed to be the only one to be guaranteed a starting place while on the continent in Jack's time.

Hopefully, if not Brady or Trapp, at least Tardelli will make a few games here a year, and, as he said, if the players are good enough, then they get their chance. And if not, well, we start asking different questions.

Ian Harte's match rate dropped sharply while he played for Levante.

Unfortunately, our bosses still see English leagues as the benchmark for playing international football. Anthony Stokes had to leave Falkirk in order to play for us. What I don't understand, is how can playing in lower leagues in England, qualify you to play for Ireland against the creme de la creme of European and World football?? They have next to no experience of European football with their clubs, yet then they're sent out to face Germany, France and co??

Unfortunately, Tardelli was only there last night to combat boredom. He wasn't looking at LOI players for possible squad selection anyway.

**eekers** · 16/04/2008, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebeard

Indeed, following this on, I would like to know if it was advantage or disadvantage to ply your trade as a footballer on the continent almost as much as in Ireland? I seem to recall that Mick's book suggested that he moved back to England to stay in contention, Moran had a similar experience I think. Mick Robinson, and Ian Harte made far fewer appearances when playing in the best league in Europe at the time, and I seem to recall that when Cas was knocking goals in all around in France, he was continually falling behind in the pecking order to goalscorers of great renoun like Tommy Coyne and Niall "All fall down" Quinn. John Aldridge seemed to be the only one to be guaranteed a starting place while on the continent in Jack's time.

From what i remember playing in Holland didnt hamper David Connolly's selection at the time.

**Buller** · 16/04/2008, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by MojoPin

so your telling me he would have scored both those goals against manchester united?

there is a gap in standards lads dont deny it. of course the person whos marking you has a bearing on your touch if im playing in a sunday league game against 11 35 year old men my touch will be way better than if i was playing against 11 internationals

Funny how that wasnt the case for Kevin Doyle, Roy O'Donovon, Shane Long or Daryl Murphy...

**cavan_fan** · 16/04/2008, 3:44 PM

I'm sure there are players in the eircom league of sufficient potential to be in the squad. I'm even prepared to accept that the league is of suffcicient quality to prepare a player for the international squad.

My problem is that given the exodus of irish players to british clubs over the last few years you have to assume all the best ones have moved (apart from young up and coming guys). I dont quite understand why someone would move to Dunfermline or Barnet rather than play for e.g. Derry but the fact is that it appears anyone with any potential is picked up quite quickly. I also reckon the combined scouting network of British clubs is unlikely to misss players. Nick Hornby made a good point once that football's not like music; you dont have unnoticed geniuses languishing in obscurity, if you have football talent you will be given a chance.

So there may be breifly be a player that is good enough in the eircom league but as a general rule if after 2 years they are not playing in Britain then, unless they have decided to reject an offer, they are probably not good enough.

**osarusan** · 16/04/2008, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

So there may be breifly be a player that is good enough in the eircom league but as a general rule if after 2 years they are not playing in Britain then, unless they have decided to reject an offer, they are probably not good enough.

How does that work?

After 2 years they are worse then they were?