Yes
No
In fairness, if we're constantly looking to Duff to do something, we've got bigger problems. No slight on the talent of the player, more a comment on the state of our tactics (or the lack thereof)Originally Posted by vega007
In fairness neither Harte nor O'Shea are poor passers. In fact I would say that they are 2 of the best passers that we have.
The problem with both of them is lack of defencive ability, but anyone can see that Harte is miles worse than O'Shea when it comes to defending. Remember the WC, your heart was in your mouth every time he came near the ball.
O Shea's passing has been sloppy of late over the last season and a half. THere may be examples of where he has passed well but in general his passing has been wayward at times, but his pass for the goal was a great ball to Duff However he is a much better defender of the ball than Harte. Harte however should be there instead of Maybury who was shown up against China.
I think that Carr at right back is more of a liability at the moment. I think Finnan is our steadiest full back.
In Trap we trust
He was called into the squad for one of the friendlies last year (think it was the Czechs) but never made it to the bench, I reckon he could get a run out against the Faroes.People rave on about Stephen Kelly. Maybe he will make the big step up soon? Jol certainly rates him. (And yes, I know he's right-footed).
O'Shea's distribution for Ireland has been woeful but the bloke can track back, he's good in the air, good at tackles, etc. He's a half-decent defender whose best is yet to come, I think.
I've nothing against Harte but I think this Harte revival stuff is a joke and shows me the fickleness of so many football supporters. You wouldn't hear one good word said about Harte until Kerr stopped selecting him. Now there's a campaign to bring him back? Why?
The free-kick argument is over-rated. Harte has a good strike of the ball but we're not talking about Michel Platini here, are we? In all the games that I've watched him play, he's caused more trouble than good.
I've no problem with him being called up as cover but he's proved that he's a terrible defender so why would anyone want to play him in defence?
I always supported Harte. He had a bad world cup. IMO though he's better than O'Shea
My opinion is that O'Shea is still our best option at this time. I don't think O'Shea's long term future for Ireland is at left back as I can see him developing into a central midfielder for us within a couple of years. Defensively he's sound but his passing is a clear weak spot, especially in tight spaces close to the touchline. I think in a crucial competitive match he'd be a little less reckless than he was on Tuesday though.
I think Harte is probably the next best option but he's burnt his bridges with Kerr and that's that for him. Let's face it, there has to be more to it than "I don't know why he's left me out, he hasn't called...".
Finnan is our best full back on EITHER side I think. I've said it a few times, but I think Finnan is one of the highest quality players we have in our side. Carr has not impressed at all in this campaign. I thought his club form has been really good in the last two months but he's been poor for us, except for a decent showing in France. I think the narrow pitch in Israel hampered him getting forward.
If I can digress just a little, the more I think of it the narrow pitch really was a telling factor in Israel. This team's strenghth is a solid but unspectacular central midfield who get the ball out wide quickly where we're most dangerous. This was just too difficult to do last weekend.
Given that I doubt Harte will ever play for Ireland under Kerr and Maybury just isn't good enough, I do think it's worth experimenting with Zinedine at left-back. He has all the attributes, and let's face it, when Harte played for us Kilbane effectively was our left back. The number of times he was last man back to tackle was amazing.
A direct swap - O'Shea to CM and KK to LB - has its merits on paper, though for now I'd love to see Kav and Keane in CM.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 01/04/2005 at 10:24 AM.
i think KK at left back would be brilliant. KK is a solid player, great at tackling, loads of pace, can bring the ball forward. Josh might be one for the future in midfield.
Life isn't all beer and football...some of us haven't touched a football in months
Finally someone with a bit of cop on. Swapping O'Shea and Kilbane is a great idea for loads of reasons. Kilbane just doesn't have the composure on the ball or the passing ability to play central midfield, O'Shea does. O'Shea isn't great defensively, Kilbane is.
Kav looks such a good player, dunno how the hell he managed to spend all of his career in the lower divisions, but I just think that he is too old at this stage to be first choice and the fact that he is playing in a lower division is a problem.
Sorry to labour this point, but unless this photo is deceptive it just shows how small the pitch was in Tel Aviv and just how hard it probably was to defend further up the pitch. You can always tell from the distance between the centre circle and the D of the penno box and in this photo it looks like no distance.
http://www.thepeoplesflag.com/web/pi...5&image_id=993
To be honest, i'd say that photo is a bit deceptive. Looking from behind and relatively low down like in that photo always foreshortens the view and makes things look smaller.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
The pitch was tiny. I honestly have no doubt that we will rip them apart in Dublin, even without Roy.
Israel are no mugs but what do they have to offer going forward? Nothing. Their supposed danger man, Benayoun, did absolutely nothing against us. He had one chance which he fluffed but he created nothing.
What do they have going back? Nothing, just a few big lads who got away with constant fouling on Saturday. They won't have their home ground protection in June. Tel Ben Haim is out as well.
If we're in any way up for this, we have nothing to fear defensively and everything to gain offensively. Like Switzerland, I have a feeling that Israel only flourish if you stand off them. If you tear into them, they crumble.
Carr and O'Shea are way too casual for international team.Finnan should start right back and either Harte or O'Shea Left back with my vote going for Harte. Our free kicks and corners have been dire lately so Hartey would definitely improve this.
carr looked a little bit chunky against israel, was this an optical illusion of the broadcast??
Did you see them against France and Switzerland? They destroyed both teams with through balls and fast, on the ground football.
I have to agree with Eirebhoy.They are not a bad team under any circumstances and we will need to be playing out of our skins in order to beat them.In my opinion they are as dangerous as the other two if not more so.Keep O'Shea at left back until we get someone better,Harte has had it.He may be good at the set pieces but he runs like ass and cant defend.
I saw them against France and I think destroyed is an exaggeration. They only got any momentum after Trezeguet was sent off and even then it took a stupid mistake from Barthez to gift them an easy goal. Otherwise, they'd be finished, as they would have been if we'd lasted 60 seconds longer. They created little against us and all I saw was a very, very average international team with home advantage.
They haven't impressed me at all, to be honest, in the same way that the Swiss never impressed me over our four games against them. Fair play to Israel for getting a draw in Paris but the manner in which they treat their home draws shows that they're just happy to be this far. Maybe their luck will last the whole way through to the end of the qualifiers. It would want to because that's why they're this far.
I'm not being dismissive but their two home draws through jammy, jammy goals has kept them in it. If Trezeguet had kept his head, the French could have gone and got another. Let's not give them too much respect.
I'd like to see Harte given another chance, even at his worst I think he would be able to offer more than the likes of Maybury. His stats for us are something like 11 goals in 40 or so caps, that's a fairly good ratio for one of our defenders.
The other thing to bear in mind is he is playing a world class league, and injury permitting, faces world class attackers on a regular basis. Even average teams in La Liga (Atletico Madrid, Deportivo, Betis, Sevilla, Sociedad) have great strikers (Torres, Tristan, Ricardo Olivera, Baptista, Nihat). It is not like the Premier League, where average teams have ordinary strikers (eg Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Villa etc). Harte will be being tested in every game he plays in, and that can only improve him as a player.
Similarly his new coach, Bernard Schuster, is widely acknowledged as a good coach at developing players' skills. In his last few seasons at Leeds Harte had coaches like Venables and Peter Reid, who are not particularly noted for developing players, but instead are more motivational in nature. Another factor is Harte's experience, he has played may high profile games for us including at the World Cup, he's also played in the semi finals of the Champions League, and will now have been exposed to a new style of football in Spain.
All of these factors make him a decent candidate to have as a back-up full-back. I think he has suffered criticism from a sizable element of our "fans" some of which is over the top and unjustified because, like Robbie Keane, a certain high profile manager in the English game has made derisory comments about him, and certain elements of our "fans" choose to follow that manager's line.
It all went a bit sour for him at Leeds in the end, and I think he deserves another chance to prove himself in a green shirt. Give him 3 friendlies, or play him in something like the Unity Cup, and see how he does.
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