O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team

[jmurphyc]

Isn't Doyle's record this season (five Prem goals for Reading) pretty ordinary? Barely better than Healy's four. He hardly stands out.

This season it is but I think he's played out on the right a fair bit this season if I'm not mistaken. However, Doyle has proved that he can cut it in the Premiership last season and Healy hasn't (at least yet).

[Gather round]

So we're agreed. Both are mediocre Prem strikers. Doyle gets shunted to midfield, Healy to the bench.

I quite like Doyle actually, normally looks lively on MotD. But he needs to get more goals next term, or face a drop down to D2.

[ifk101]

IFK- come off it, we realise Steve Staunton was a poor manager but you're not seriously suggesting they got NO coaching?

IMO Stan's greatest failing was his lack of communication skills. He's just not an effective communicator. I don't know Stan personally but looking back on his time as manager he always looked very uncomfortable talking in public and what he had to say was a collection of cliches that were never delivered with any conviction. So whilst Stan was out on the training field doing his thing and in his mind coaching the players, whether the players were actually being coached is very much open to question.

[EalingGreen]

I'd have to agree healys finishing is far better than keanes though. Per game for NI though, how many goals to shots on target does he score, and can anyone point out the same stat for keane. Keane tends to miss quite a few before a goal, whereas I have a feeling healy doesn't miss so many before he scores therefore adding to the fact he is a better finisher.

You've certainly hit the target there, Paul!

The Statistics from Euro2008 are very revealing. Obviously, DH was top scorer with 13 in 12 games (1063 mins). Note that these were evenly divided between 7 in 6 games against the minors (Liechtenstein, Latvia and Iceland) and 6 in 6 against Sweden, Denmark and Spain:
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...=gs/index.html
By contrast Keane scored 4 goals (989 mins) and Doyle 4 (676 mins)

Healy was also 3rd highest in the number of shots on goal (i.e. saved), with 24. This was more than Keane (13) and Doyle (8) combined.
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...sg/page=2.html

Yet when it came to Shots Wide, Healy was only 6= in the list, with 13 - the same as Keane. Doyle had 7, in much less game-time than either. This is a testament to Healy's accuracy.
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...=sw/index.html
(Zinedine Kilbane had 12 shots off target, btw! )

Perhaps as interesting is the number of offsides incurred:
Healy was way out in front (literally!) on 24. Normally, if such a player weren't scoring (or at least getting shots off), you'd say he was stupid/wasteful. But for me, this demonstrates how incredibly hard the wee man works - he's permanently on the defender's shoulder, pushing, pushing pushing, until his chance comes. (I think he scored five one-on-ones against the keeper after outstripping the defence, which shows great timing for one who's not lightening quick).
By contrast, Keane was offside just 7 times and Doyle 6. And since neither is a lazy-arse, this indicates that they spent far too much time playing far too deep.
(Note how Lafferty was also caught offside 6 times, despite being a target man and not playing half the games)
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...t=o/index.html

The Fouls Suffered Table is also illuminating. You expect a dribbler like Ronaldo or Duff to get fouled frequently. But Healy was 5th on 28, with Lafferty on 14 (42 fouls suffered in total). Whereas Keane was fouled 19 times and Doyle 8 (27). Since Healy and Laff both push up continuously, this gains NI plenty of free-kick possession in the opposition's half.

And the Fouls Committed Table also tells a story. Both Healy and Laff are right up there on the first page with 22 each! Neither is a dirty player (though Laff is very raw and being 6'4", refs are suspicious of him) and they hardly got booked. What this means, therefore, is that they disrupt the opposition where they can't hurt NI i.e. in the opposition's own half. Whereas Keane (18) and Doyle (8) don't look to have been nearly as big a nuisance.
Further, NI's 3rd choice forward, Feeney, committed 13 fouls in 412 mins, the same number as our two most attacking midfielders, Gillespie (13 in 789 mins) and Davis (13 in 1069 mins). By contrast, our deepest/defensive midfielder, Clingan, committed just 8 fouls in 866 mins. This shows just how hard they all worked to protect the defence. [Interestingly, ROI's "foulingest" player was Centre Half Richard Dunne, also on 22, which for a player of his class, suggests he had a hell of a lot of defending to do!]
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...=fc/index.html

Finally, when you look at the overall Team Statistics, NI are generally fairly average, alongside ROI:
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...eam/index.html
The one glaring exception, however, is the number of Offsides committed:
NI were 3rd (of 50 teams), having been caught offside 46 times. Whereas, ROI were 40th, penalised just 21 times:
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...t=o/index.html

It's a simple game, really. First get the ball into your opponent's half, where they can't hurt you. Then get it up to your forwards, where you can hurt them. Finally, if you lose the ball, do it up front, then don't let the opposition out of their own half with it.

Above all, if you give it to Healy, he will score!

Come off it EG. Anyone bar NI fans would consider Doyle to be a better player than Healy and a far better player than Lafferty

On club form, of course. But this whole thread is discussing their merits as international players.

(wasn't he Championship player of the season at a similar age to the age Lafferty is now).

Lafferty (DOB 16/09/87) was 20 last September. Doyle (DOB 18/09/83) was 24 the same month.
When Doyle signed for Reading in June 2005, he was already nearly 22, having been full-time with Cork for a period before that.
Meanwhile, Lafferty was still playing in Youth Tournaments in NI.

[geysir]

Anyone want to pick their best All Ireland 11.
Just for curiousity value sake

From the Republic's team
I´d only guarentee Given, Dunne, Andy Reid and Keane a place.

Possibly Steven Reid and possibly Duff, both depending on form and depending on what NI had available.

[paul_oshea]

Brady is too busy sulking after the other pundits ridiculed his boss Wenger on RTE last night

There's a YT video for those who missed it.

where is it?!

[Gather round]

Sorry, I forgot the details for the Brady/ Dunphy video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMTGmAZ0k4M

[paul_oshea]

how come i can never find these?! the search function on youtube is crap i think.

the best football team in which country?! does souness know where he is?!

[Junior]

Brady v Dunphy - Id happily watch that type of punditry for the CL games rather than Sky or ITV!!!!

ER - great stats very interesting stuff - but by fcuk youve got too much time on your hands!!!

[GavinZac]

how come i can never find these?! the search function on youtube is crap i think.

What would google know about searching, eh?

[geysir]

It's an intersting page for the Euro statistics.
The one missing that tells a story is the activity of the goalie.

Hard to remember that we did anything of substance in our worst campaign in yonks.
Even with our absolute worst performance in 25 years we still managed more ball possession and won 30% more corners that NI who had their best campaign, since 1980?.

All is not bleak folks .)

and no need to retort that we had 2 games against San Marino

[Gather round]

NI who had their best campaign, since 1980?

It was a long time ago, but I think we might have done slightly better in both 1982 and 1986

And don't forget we were a close second place in 1984 after beating West Germany home and away.

It was certainly our best campaign since 1996.

[Not Brazil]

I love these discussions where ROI fans discuss the merits of an All Ireland team, and then proceed to tell us Nordies why our players aren't good enough to get into such a side.

I'll stick with Northern Ireland, thanks all the same - for better, or worse.

[irishfan86]

My team if we were united:

--------------------Given-----------------

Finnan/Hughes--Dunne--Evans---McCartney

McGeady-----S.Reid--A. Reid-----Hunt

-----------Keane-----Healy--------


Now, I admit I am not the most knowledgeable guy on players from the North, but that is what my team would look like. That said, I have my doubts about a Healy and Keane partnership, and would gladly drop either for a target man to give our team an aerial option.

[kingdomkerry]

My team if we were united:

--------------------Given-----------------

Finnan/Hughes--Dunne--Evans---McCartney

McGeady-----S.Reid--A. Reid-----Hunt

-----------Keane-----Healy--------


Now, I admit I am not the most knowledgeable guy on players from the North, but that is what my team would look like. That said, I have my doubts about a Healy and Keane partnership, and would gladly drop either for a target man to give our team an aerial option.

Given
Finnan/McCartney Dunne Evans O'Se
McGeady S Reid A Reid Duff
Keane Healy/Doyle

Difficult choice between Healy and Doyle both are'nt exactley setting the world alight. Overall fairly solid

Stephen Ireland just misses out due to Andy Reids club form

[geysir]

I think the All Ireland 11 might have looked better in another era


I think i'd examine the idea for an Ireland league, that that would have more benefit for local Irish soccer than messing about with the national teams.

[co. down green]

I love these discussions where ROI fans discuss the merits of an All Ireland team, and then proceed to tell us Nordies why our players aren't good enough to get into such a side.

I'll stick with Northern Ireland, thanks all the same - for better, or worse.

Many of us 'Nordies' have always followed Ireland, so its the best eleven for us, North,South,East or West.

We don't mind if our players hail from Belfast, Cork, Dublin, Derry, Galway, Lurgan, Limerick or wherever - Its about success and qualifying for major tournaments.

Like my fellow 'Nordies', O'Neill, Jennings, Dougan, Lennon & Best, i would like to see an all Ireland team, but for now we are happy with our senior & underage teams being represented by players from all parts of the Island.

[EalingGreen]

We don't mind if our players hail from Belfast, Cork, Dublin, Derry, Galway, Lurgan, Limerick or wherever - Its about success and qualifying for major tournaments.

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear. Don't you wish you'd been born Brazilian then?

You see, for this Irish football fan, it's not, nor ever has been, about "success", or "qualifying". Which is why I've followed my team when we couldn't buy a goal, never mind a win. When we were an International laughing stock. When we couldn't play our "home" games at home. When our players were an embarrassment on the pitch and some of our fans an even worse one on the terraces. It's why, when we did get back home, and I was overseas, I still tried to get back when I could - even after the humiliation of getting humped 4-0 by our friends from South of the border.

Sure, if I'd really wanted "success", or even mere "qualification", maybe a "united" Ireland team might do the trick more often - though I notice how quiet advocates of such a dream remain when the record of the united Germany is pointed out to them (Post #116). But why stop there? Why don't I support England, for instance? After all, I've lived most of my adult life here and my club team is English. Hell, even my other half is English, so I must qualify somehow. Or how about a United Kingdom team? Dammit, I wouldn't even have to change my Passport!

But no, maybe I'll choose the obvious alternative; after all, shoving hot needles in your eyes can't be that bad (at least not after you've suffered the sight of Peter Rafferty in a Green shirt....)

But what about you, CDG? I must say, I'm worried about you. You see, I'm not just old enough to remember when my team had qualified for three World Cups before half your lot had even visited the Irish Embassy in London to apply for their first (second?) Passport.

That also makes me old enough to remember when your team went exactly 6 years without a home win, including four and a half years without a win of any kind, until a half-assed Iranian team saved your blushes on a tour/pis s-up in Brazil!

So what will you do when the tide turns, as history tells us it surely will? Who will you follow then for your "fix" of success and qualification? Manchester United, I suppose...

Anyhow, there's no hurry with the reply. In the meantime, here's something you might like to take into account whilst pondering:
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ra...ion=0&rank=168
Don't worry, you're still on Page 1. For the moment.

[Pike B]

Anyone want to pick their best All Ireland 11.
Just for curiousity value sake

From the Republic's team
I´d only guarentee Given, Dunne, Andy Reid and Keane a place.

Possibly Steven Reid and possibly Duff, both depending on form and depending on what NI had available.

All Ireland 11
1:Given
2:Finnan
3:Kelly
4Dunne
5:O' Shea
6:Carsley
7:S Reid
8:Mc Geady
9:Healy
10:Keane
11Duff...

Need I say more??

[EalingGreen]

All Ireland 11
1:Given
2:Finnan
3:Kelly
4Dunne
5:O' Shea
6:Carsley
7:S Reid
8:Mc Geady
9:Healy
10:Keane
11Duff...

Need I say more??

Nice try, but I suspect Sir David might have something even more pressing to do that day, like washing his hair, or re-arranging his sock drawer.

That's if he's not too busy receiving another Award from the President (that's Platini, not McAleese, btw):
http://www.uefa.com/magazine/news/ki...id=676692.html