Im sure if it were to happen Northern ireland would want and probably demand a certain quota of their players be in the squad(ala South Africa rugby). Now i know Northern Ireland are going through a purple patch for the opast 2-3 years but simply put their squad is very very poor. You could count on one hand the amount that should get in their squad, and only Evans would start. However i would like if we could bottle some of the attitude the northern Irish players have and give it to our fellas
NI 12-6-2-4-20
RoI 12-4-5-3-17
Can't argue with the league tables, can ye?
The whole idea is a fantasy, so why not indulge yourself that there'll be 22 RoI players in the notional squad?
PS Sanchez and Worthy may be a pair of surly fcukers, but they've persuaded enough of the players that international football's a step up. For Trap, we'll have to wait and see...
Fantasy is what has kept us going all these years.
An all-Island league I'd love to see but I'm happy with the Republic and Northern Ireland as seperate teams. regardless of which players would be selected I could only see their being problems.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
More to do with the fact that you were being managed by reasonably competent individuals with previous managerial experience at a decent level compared to our village idiot and part time Walsall tea boy than to do with any comparision in the respective abilities of the players.Originally Posted by Gather round
Put it this way Sanchez bought the NI senior first team and Fulham have consequently become a dead cert for relegation. Keane bought the entire ROI B team and they are still 13 points better off.
Under Trap we'll be far more competitive than NI, of this I'm sure, even if (as I suspect) he turns out to be not quite the miracle worker that many are expecting.
Last edited by youngirish; 08/04/2008 at 5:07 PM.
If you ever get the chance, can you find out from him where I'm going wrong? Not "genuine"? Not "Irish"? Or simply not a "fan"?
Really? Try telling that to the Germans, then. In the 17-odd years before West Germany (FRG) and East Germany (GDR) teams were reunited in 1991, West Germany's record was significantly better than the 17 years since.
For instance, in the five World Cup Finals Tournaments from 1974, West Germany won it twice and were Runners-Up twice, finishing in 6th place in 1978. Whereas, in the four WC Finals since, the best they managed was Runner-Up once (2002), finishing 3rd (2006), 5th (1994) and 7th (1998).
The story is only marginally better for the European Championships. From 1972, they won it twice (1972 and 1980), finished Runner-up in 1976, reached the Semis in 1988 and failed to get out of their Group once (1984).
Whereas, since re-unification, although they were Runner-Up in 1992 and were Winners in 1996, they've failed to get out of their Group in the two Finals Tournaments since (2000 and 2004).
You might also care to look at the recent record of the constituent parts of the former Yugoslavia (Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia etc) and compare their relative successes with that of the unified Yugoslavia prior to the early 1990's. (And be careful little Montenegro don't bite you on the arse as well)
So do you want a "united" team, or not?
You sure know how to sweet-talk us, don't you? Anyhow, you might want to study this:
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ra...llranking.html
P.S. You're not Eddie O'Sullivan in disguise, by any chance?
Just about the worst idea I've seen yet on this whole thorny subject. If you were trying to find a way of pis sing off as many people as possible, I doubt if you could do better.
Risible - but i won't rise to it...
Ah, that old chestnut - "attitude". What would you say to those who disparaged Jack Charlton's players as being "poor", having to make up for their lack of quality with lashings of "attitude"?
Has it never occurred to you that perhaps NI's players aren't quite so poor as some people allege, and some of the ROI players aren't so good as others claim?
In my experience, players don't become good players because they are confident; rather, they become confident because they are good. And so long as Worthington doesn't screw things up, we have a squad of (mostly) good young players who have the potential to get better.
A bad manager can screw up good players to make them look bad, but a good manager can't make bad players good - at least not over any consistent period.
Sanchez bought precisely four NI players. He had more Americans in his squad of 26(?) ffs! And his record over the 17 League games he was given was better than that of Hodgson, who has had them for 16 League games and has only picked one NI player regularly.
As for Keane, he had three times the net budget to spend over Sanchez, as well as a whole season more in charge. Granted, he's bought a lot of ROI players and some of them have done very well. But he has discarded a fair few, or isn't picking several more. Speaking of which, is Paul McShane injured? I only ask because I see some young lad called Evans is playing rather well for Sunderland at Centre Half...
You ought to be a good deal more competitive than NI, if for no other reason than that you have a rather bigger squad of decent players than us. But I don't see quite such a difference in quality between your First XI and ours.
Last edited by dahamsta; 04/06/2008 at 9:55 AM.
Oh shut up. Ye are useless. Think ye are great cause ye had a couple of lucky results last time. One or two of the NI team would make an All Ireland team at present. Still, those one or two could be the difference between everyone in Ireland getting the chance to go to the world cup or everyone staying at home.
I dont expect it to happen over night cause NI supporters are too politically motivated.
In the mean time, its important to get an AI league up and running and ensuring that our boys in the 6 counties who are good enough to play for us dont even consider playing with the wrong side.
Maybe we already have a United Ireland team!!
we were the ones lucky enough to get last minute goals against San Marino and Cyprus to prevent defeats by those two
Or maybe they like having their own team ,
Anyone currently good enough or not good enough to play for us from the North can already choose to do so. If they want to play for the North then it's hardly the wrong side in their eyes.
This is what I find funny. They're politically motivated because they dont want an AI team but your not politically motivated in wanting one. As you said they wouldnt add much to our pool of players so what's the point if its not political?
Our boys? What do you mean by that? Catholics? Republicans?
Surely its for them to decide which is the 'wrong side'? Or do you think they shouldnt have a choice at all?
Thats a very political post for someone who's giving out about NI fans being politically motivated.
Atm anyone who wants to play for us can. So what exactly is the problem? Not happy with having the option of every player on the island?
If only one set of fans want this merging, its never going to happen and rightly so. And thats before you worry about what UEFA and FIFA think.
Get off the moral highground will you ya plonk
Is Martin O'Neill or Jennings or George Best politically motivated for wanting an All Ireland team.
Our boys = this is an Ireland forum, there are many people from the north who support us and post on here
Ive always argued they should have the choice, not that I could understand it if they picked the sectarian team on the island.
It will never happen? Do you know this? Can you see the future? Will be interesting to see what happens in about 20 years when the majority of the population in the north are Ireland suppporters.
Moral highground? So my opinion is somehow being on a moral highground.
Well done on resorting to insults too
You'd have to ask them. I was referring to your post
But how are they 'our boys' if they choose to play for N.I. What makes them 'our boys' and how would someone be choosing the 'wrong side' as you said?
Who's 'they' here? Anyone living on the island?
We're back to the 'Lets insult the other teams fans' and call them sectarian. That doesnt stregthen your argument. The strides the NI fans have made to clean up their support is well documented and is to be respected. We have plenty of clowns in our own support
Now go read the post again.
I said 'while only one set of fans want it' it wont happen. I didnt say never.
If the majority of the population in the North wanted an AI team in 20 then obviously it wouldnt be only one set of fans wanting it, and would be a different situation.
But even then, if 51% want to support/play for the Republic, nothing is stopping them from doing so. So why take the team from the other 49%(for example) if they still want it?
It doesnt make any sense to me tbh.
NI's start eleven against Georgia was as follows;You sure know how to sweet-talk us, don't you? Anyhow, you might want to study this:
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ra...llranking.html
P.S. You're not Eddie O'Sullivan in disguise, by any chance?
Taylor, Baird, Hughes, Craigan, Evans, Gillespie, Johnson, Davis, Elliott, Healy, Lafferty.
Evans would start for us as we are in desperate need of a left full. Otherwise none of the players in that team are a clear improvement on what we already have to suggest that an united Ireland team would perform better on the world stage.
But please highlight where I'm wrong.
Climbing higher i see. Sorry if you think being called a plonk is an insult. Dont cry little girlMoral highground? So my opinion is somehow being on a moral highground.
Well done on resorting to insults too
You'd have to ask them. I was referring to your post
But how are they 'our boys' if they choose to play for N.I. What makes them 'our boys' and how would someone be choosing the 'wrong side' as you said?
Who's 'they' here? Anyone living on the island?
We're back to the 'Lets insult the other teams fans' and call them sectarian. That doesnt stregthen your argument. The strides the NI fans have made to clean up their support is well documented and is to be respected. We have plenty of clowns in our own support
Now go read the post again.
I said 'while only one set of fans want it' it wont happen. I didnt say never.
If the majority of the population in the North wanted an AI team in 20 then obviously it wouldnt be only one set of fans wanting it, and would be a different situation.
But even then, if 51% want to support/play for the Republic, nothing is stopping them from doing so. So why take the team from the other 49%(for example) if they still want it?
It doesnt make any sense to me tbh.
I see you can't actually address the points again.....
Kepp going on about that moral highground though
Nah, it's a lovely endearment....
I suppose I'm little enough....crying though? Do you understand what a forum discussion is?Dont cry little girl
Look lad, either debate the points and back up your argument or don't. Tbh I'm not too bothered either way.
But Im only interested in discussing and debating opinions on here, not some tit for tat rubbish about moral highground and the like. So unless you want to disagree with the points I made Ill leave it there.
You honestly believe that. You honeslty believe there isnt much of a difference between you best 11But I don't see quite such a difference in quality between your First XI and ours.
Taylor, Craigain, Hughes, McCauley, Evans, Gillespie, Clingan, Davis, Brunt, Healy and Feeney (give or take a couple)
is much the same in quality as
Given, Kelly, Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane, McGeady, A. Reid, S.Reid, Hunt, Doyle and Keane
Do me a bloody favour. Take off the tinted glasses. Yes you have been going through a good phase, but with the level of players of your disposal it will not last. Yes you are ahead of us for a number of months in the FIFA rankings....big whoop. We have been at our lowest level since the beginning of McCarthys days recently( and even they were arguably better). I you gave that list above of the Northern Irish XI and the Irish XI to anybody in Europe im fairly sure over 95% would agree on which one had the more 'quality' as you put it.
Well done on resorting to insults tooYou'd have to ask them. I was referring to your postBut how are they 'our boys' if they choose to play for N.I. What makes them 'our boys' and how would someone be choosing the 'wrong side' as you said?Who's 'they' here? Anyone living on the island?We're back to the 'Lets insult the other teams fans' and call them sectarian. That doesnt stregthen your argument. The strides the NI fans have made to clean up their support is well documented and is to be respected. We have plenty of clowns in our own supportNow go read the post again.I said 'while only one set of fans want it' it wont happen. I didnt say never.If the majority of the population in the North wanted an AI team in 20 then obviously it wouldnt be only one set of fans wanting it, and would be a different situation.But even then, if 51% want to support/play for the Republic, nothing is stopping them from doing so. So why take the team from the other 49%(for example) if they still want it?It doesnt make any sense to me tbh.Your opinon is not you being on the moral highground. However when you are acting all high and mighty its a different story read your post again.Because I aspire to an All Ireland team I am politically motivated yeah? Then do you think that Best, Jennings, O'Neill are politically motivated too as well as about 80% (guess) of the entire population of Ireland?"Our boys" I explained what i meant by this in my last post. Read it slowly this timeYou asked me a question relating to the eligibility row. I answered it and refered to the people who have the choice as "they" who did you think i was reffering to. Maybe your very young or something, or just not the sharpest tool in the box.You might believe that all is rosy down winsor way, I dont. The Neil Lennon debacle was not too long ago.I think you'll find that demographics will determine that there will be a nationalist majority in around 20 years time. Im not talking about a poll or anything.What about Duff and Stepen IrelandYou honestly believe that. You honeslty believe there isnt much of a difference between you best 11
Taylor, Craigain, Hughes, McCauley, Evans, Gillespie, Clingan, Davis, Brunt, Healy and Feeney (give or take a couple)
is much the same in quality as
Given, Kelly, Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane, McGeady, A. Reid, S.Reid, Hunt, Doyle and Keane
Do me a bloody favour. Take off the tinted glasses. Yes you have been going through a good phase, but with the level of players of your disposal it will not last. Yes you are ahead of us for a number of months in the FIFA rankings....big whoop. We have been at our lowest level since the beginning of McCarthys days recently( and even they were arguably better). I you gave that list above of the Northern Irish XI and the Irish XI to anybody in Europe im fairly sure over 95% would agree on which one had the more 'quality' as you put it.
Last edited by dahamsta; 04/06/2008 at 9:56 AM.
Example?
Not necessarily, but given your comments about 'our boys' the post was political.
You're the one who claimed the NI fans were politically motivated becuase they didnt want one. I dont see the difference.
Why exactly do you want an AI team?
I cant comment on the 3 above but a lot of people I have spoken to in favour of an AI see it as a step towards a united Ireland.
As many said above, they dont add an awful lot to our player pool, so what reason is there for wanting 2 football teams to come together?
I did.
Again if your talking about people who support NI then they wouldnt eb people that are lining out for NI. So how exactly would anyone be picking the 'wrong side'
I said nothing about the eligibilty row. Im talking about 'them' having their own team. Why shouldn't they have their own team if thats what they want?
Back to the insults. Well done. Lets try something- go one post simply answering the points without trying to insult me.
I never said everything was rosy. But things werent rosy down in Turners cross for the u21 match against england either. As I said everyone has clowns.
They are working hard to eradicate theirs. It is wrong imo to brand the entire support as sectarian given the work they are doing
Again I dont see how its relevant. Even if there is. Whats the problem with them supporting ROI if they want(or NI) and leaving the NI team for anyone who wants to play for/support them.
I just dont see the point in trying to force NI supporters(theoretically) into having an AI team. As it stands anyone on the island can play/support who they want. Why change it to a system where some people would consider themselves to be losing their team.
As an example: If City and Cobh were talking about merging to make 1 team in Cork. I dont think many City fans would have a problem, as the bigger team they'd be mostly squad players and it would boost our attendances which would be good.
However I would imagine Cobh fans would be vehemently against it, for the same reasons real NI football fans are against an AI. They would be losing their team, their own identity and being practically 'swallowed up' by the bigger team.
Good rant, but calm down. We are quite clearly better than you, as measured by comparable 12-game leagues over two seasons. We have been improving for four years, since the EC 2004 lowpoint. You have been mediocre (by your own previously higher standards) for six. It's not impossible both trends might continue awhile yet.
Our basic problem is one of numbers. We have only 40% of the players available to you, less than 5% when you consider England and the other big boys. On the other hand, a group of talented individuals isn't enough in itself. We might expect your squad, who play regularly in the English Prem or Champs' League, to beat Cyprus or San Marino comfortably and the big boys occasionally. But the reality is that for many years now they haven't (can't?).
There may be many reasons for this- injuries to key players, complacency through lack of competition, a succession of negative or inexperienced coaches, unfair barracking of some players, whatever. But in six years, you haven't beaten anyone with realistic hope of qualifying.
You may be right in your straw poll of random European fans. But I suspect you overstate their interest in fringe Manchester United defenders, let alone guys at Wigan or Reading. The average armchair fan in Iceland or Istanbul is more likely to have seen Healy's love-in with Michel Platini
I know that our fans (self included) often get too chippy about our rivalry with you. But the sad truth is that being better than the RoI means very little nowadays. It clearly doesn't guarantee qualification. I genuinely hope that changes soon...
Last edited by Gather round; 09/04/2008 at 8:20 AM.
Yawn. It's not about which team is better than the other, it's about whether joining forces would make an united Ireland team a "force" in world football. In my mind, the NI squad bar one or two exceptions does not offer a clear improvement on our current pick of players to suggest that joining forces would create a "super-side". Six of the team that started against Georgia played in the 4-1 defeat to Norway 4 years ago that coincided with NI's ranking as 124th best in the world. This highlights that FIFA rankings have nothing to do with the quality of players available to a team - it's reflective of how a group of players perform as a team. Yes NI have performed better than us as a team in recent years but this doesn't mean that NI has the better players.Good rant, but calm down. We are quite clearly better than you, as measured by comparable 12-game leagues over two seasons. We have been improving for four years, since the EC 2004 lowpoint. You have been mediocre (by your own previously higher standards) for six. It's not impossible both trends might continue awhile yet.
Our basic problem is one of numbers. We have only 40% of the players available to you, less than 5% when you consider England and the other big boys. On the other hand, a group of talented individuals isn't enough in itself. We might expect your squad, who play regularly in the English Prem or Champs' League, to beat Cyprus or San Marino comfortably and the big boys occasionally. But the reality is that for many years now they haven't (can't?).
There may be many reasons for this- injuries to key players, complacency through lack of competition, a succession of negative or inexperienced coaches, unfair barracking of some players, whatever. But in six years, you haven't beaten anyone with realistic hope of qualifying.
You may be right in your straw poll of random European fans. But I suspect you overstate their interest in fringe Manchester United defenders, let alone guys at Wigan or Reading. The average armchair fan in Iceland or Istanbul is more likely to have seen Healy's love-in with Michel Platini
I know that our fans (self included) often get too chippy about our rivalry with you. But the sad truth is that being better than the RoI means very little nowadays. It clearly doesn't guarantee qualification. I genuinely hope that changes soon...
Thread boring you?
It's about what people raise in the thread, surely? I was merely answering Carloz's points.
Of course broadly I agree with you- we are two clearly third-rate international teams and the enthusiasts for union are either deluding themselves, or more likely on a wind-up as I said.
I said we had the better team. In the short-term, since 2006, this is self-evident.
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