O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team

[Dr. Ogba]

Oh dear, I see where this is going.....six + pages of arguments between the usual suspects then thread locked....

I'm outta here!

[geysir]

Even in today's context Dougan's achievement would be regarded as remarkable, not to mention 35 years ago in the middle of mayhem.
It was strong statement then from many of the players that they had no problem with an All Ireland team.
Pat Jennings has said that "The supporters are more concerned with religious and political differences than the players".
That is supported by the list of legends from the North who have come out publicly in favour of an All Ireland team.

Dougan managed against big opposition to achieve the realization of a unique sporting event that still astonishes some decades later.


.

[youngirish]

did they really expect an Irish team to play under god save the queen?

what the 6 counties needs is their own anthem like the scots and welsh have. when they get around to that then both both anthems can be played and at last we can get rid of irelands call

Unfortunately it's not that simple. Our anthem is as offensive to many Unionists as God Save the Queen is to Irish Nationalists.

[EalingGreen]

I don't care whether any such new team had no NI players, half a dozen NI players or the whole lot were from NI. And when it comes to it, I don't really care about flags and anthems etc. Nor do I have anything against the ROI team or its supporters.

It's just I have no desire to see the team I first went to watch 38 years ago disappear, to be replaced by a United Ireland team, a United Kingdom team, or any other "United" team, for that matter.

NI are my team, I've supported them through thick and thin and I just want to go on doing so. Why can't other people, who fervently follow their own team, not understand this?

P.S. If absolutely forced, the only possibility I might countenance would be to merge with Brazil or, at a pinch, Sweden (the latter more for their female fans than their players! )

[kingdomkerry]

Unfortunately it's not that simple. Our anthem is as offensive to many Unionists as God Save the Queen is to Irish Nationalists.

Yeah buts its accepted by all 4.6million people. GSTQ is an insult to 1m Irish that live in the north

[GavinZac]

Oh dear, I see where this is going.....six + pages of arguments between the usual suspects then thread locked....

I'm outta here!

This would never have happened under Bertie

[Qwerty]

I would be totally opposed to it for one simple reason....Our anthem.
I would hate to see us going down the line of Rugby and having to come up with some complete rubbish song that is supposed to make us feel pride in our team.
There are still too many divisions, all ya have to do is look at the crowd for a northern Ireland game and see the passion that they sing god save the queen with and how many union jacks around the stadium. I just dont see how the 2 supporters could mix

Simply, drop the anthem and have a minutes silence for the mistakes and silliness of the past

[geysir]

Looking at the bigger picture, NI legends since the '70s, O'Neill, Jennings, Best and Dougan have all stated their preference even desire for an All Ireland team.

Giles, the wise elder statesman of Irish football has stated last night that he thinks it will happen sometime in 5, 10 or 15 years.

[Gather round]

Why don't you have a trial run with England (home venue), Scotland (best player) or Italy (wiser elder statesman than Giles, perhaps)?

Do we have any actual quotes from Mad Mart?

[Juanace]

I don't care whether any such new team had no NI players, half a dozen NI players or the whole lot were from NI. And when it comes to it, I don't really care about flags and anthems etc. Nor do I have anything against the ROI team or its supporters.

It's just I have no desire to see the team I first went to watch 38 years ago disappear, to be replaced by a United Ireland team, a United Kingdom team, or any other "United" team, for that matter.

NI are my team, I've supported them through thick and thin and I just want to go on doing so. Why can't other people, who fervently follow their own team, not understand this?

P.S. If absolutely forced, the only possibility I might countenance would be to merge with Brazil or, at a pinch, Sweden (the latter more for their female fans than their players! )

Cant really argue with that, its a fair enough view to have...only thing id say is, having parents from the North, i know certainly my Da would luv to see to two teams compete together..he actually support both sides, depends whose doing better!! Bit of a glory supporter i suppose..at the end of the day it comes back to the politics of it so i cant see it happening.

[EalingGreen]

Looking at the bigger picture, NI legends since the '70s, O'Neill, Jennings, Best and Dougan have all stated their preference even desire for an All Ireland team.

Giles, the wise elder statesman of Irish football has stated last night that he thinks it will happen sometime in 5, 10 or 15 years.

I daresay had you asked Giles the same question 5, 10 or 15 years ago - hell, back in 1973 - you'd have got the same answer.

People, usually in the Republic, often when NI are in the ascendancy and the Republic in the doldrums, have been raising this tired old question for as long as this tired old observer can remember and still the answer remains the same.

Unless or until a politically-united Ireland should happen, then a united Ireland team has no chance of ever happening. If nothing else, this is because FIFA has never in its history agreed to two separate, sovereign Nations, or parts of such Nations, combining their international teams into one. There is no reason why they should; by contrast, there are any number of reasons why they shouldn't (or wouldn't want to).

By contrast, there are logical reasons why FIFA might seek a single United Kingdom team, plus political (small "p") reasons why they would want one (inc. seeing UK/UEFA lose an extra 3 votes in FIFA). Yet that has been the case for nearly 60 years (since the Home Nations re-entry) and such a prospect is also as far away as ever.

And when it comes to it, as the continuing existence of a separate Hong Kong international team and FA since its re-absorption into China demonstrates, even a politically united Ireland is no guarantee that the IFA - the world's 4th oldest Association - will be required to disband.

So it's a Red Herring (imo), not worthy of serious further discussion. In the meantime, though, would anyone amongst the ROI support care to tell me why they might be prepared to see their Team/Association disappear, after a proud 87 year history?

P.S. John Giles is 67.

[geysir]

If you were a more sensible poster EG then you'd be a bit more quiet on the workings of FIFA

People, usually in the Republic, often when NI are in the ascendancy and the Republic in the doldrums, have been raising this tired old question for as long as this tired old observer can remember and still the answer remains the same.

Tired old cynical posters should retire gracefully.
The title of the thread is Martin O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team and Pat Jennings was also forthright in his opinions. That makes it NI legends talking about it when NI are doing well. Or do you not recognise the names of legends like Jennings and O'Neill as being representative of Northern Ireland?

I don't see it as being on anyone agenda anytime soon.
Just the same as the OWC is not now and will not anytime soon be a team that the majority of Nationalists will identify with, even if the bad old days when Jennings got abused from sections are long gone.

The idea of a one off all Ireland team 35 years ago required a level of dynamism that a big character like Dougan provided to cut through the cynicism and the suits.
On a more serious level as in a competitive united team it would require a hell of a lot more that most people think it's too big a step.

In the meantime, though, would anyone amongst the ROI support care to tell me why they might be prepared to see their Team/Association disappear, after a proud 87 year history?

No problem for me. An exciting adventure.
In the meantime, anyone born in the North is entitled to citizenship and play for us, will have to do

[kingdomkerry]

Id have no problem seeing a team with an 87 year proud record disappear as I am sure it would be for the greater good and lead us on to better things. They bring Tri colours and NI flags to rugby games so they could do the same for the football. Also when/if NI get an anthem accepable to all its citizens then it could be played along with Amhrain na Bhfiann. The only other issue would be home games. What about a compromise WC qualifer home games in Dublin and Euro qualifer games in Belfast. Friendlies in between WC games to be played in Belfast and likewise and friendlies in between Euro qualifiers to be played in Dublin.

If you had a poll on a UI team in Ireland it would pass no doubt and if you had a poll in the North I think it would pass (remember seeing the results of a poll on an All Ireland team on BBC Newsline and 59% were in favour. I think this would be fairly accurate give all nationalists would be in favour and a substantional number of protestants (eg George Best RIP and other broad minded individuals)

[Maroon 7]

I do think it'll eventually happen but I think Giles is a bit optimistic with his 5, 10 or 15 years prediction. I don't buy it that it only comes up when ROI are doing badly and NI doing (relatively) well either. I remember the topic coming up even during the Charlton years. Personally I would have no problem trading a ROI team for an "Ireland" team. Why would I? They would both be Irish football teams. I don't have any sense of rivalry with my fellow Irishmen in NI so certainly wouldn't be against any amalgamation but it'll happen when the time is right and not before.

[geysir]

Seeing as the plans for a decent stadium in Belfast (or its environs) have been scuttled and the IFA are the real beggars when it comes to cash resources, I think it has to be Lansdowne Rd.

[backstothewall]

People, usually in the Republic, often when NI are in the ascendancy and the Republic in the doldrums, have been raising this tired old question for as long as this tired old observer can remember .

The people who raise this question, time after time, are from the North. They were from North this time, last time, and in the 70's. Dougan, Best, O'Neill, Jennings.

People like Giles get asked for their opinion after the matter is raised by a northerner, but people within the FAI have always been careful not to be seen to be suggesting it, or pressurising the north into it in any way.

In the short term the thing most likely to bring the island together on the field is an all ireland league, something the Glens are very much in favour of Ealing.

If it did happen, McCartney would start every game for me, as would Evans if Andy O'Brien doesn't change his mind. Kyle Lafferty would certainly be on the bench and there could be up to another half dozen in the squad.

As for symbols the North's badge is far better than anything the FAI have ever had for a start. There are plenty of potential flags, the cross of St. Pat or the Blue flag for example.

Ireland Call is there as an anthem but its a dirge, as is Danny Boy for that matter. But the Fields of Athenry is an option or for something to really belt out a truncated version of the Irish Rover

And for the record, I very much doubt it would be the IFA disappearing. much more likely if it were to happen the 26 counties would simply re-apply for membership of the Irish Football Association, followed by an EGM to put through the paperwork.

[EalingGreen]

If you were a more sensible poster EG then you'd be a bit more quiet on the workings of FIFA

Does your use of the smilie indicate you think your answer to my post was clever? Just to remind you, it was:
"Unless or until a politically-united Ireland should happen, then a united Ireland team has no chance of ever happening. If nothing else, this is because FIFA has never in its history agreed to two separate, sovereign Nations, or parts of such Nations, combining their international teams into one. There is no reason why they should; by contrast, there are any number of reasons why they shouldn't (or wouldn't want to).
By contrast, there are logical reasons why FIFA might seek a single United Kingdom team, plus political (small "p") reasons why they would want one (inc. seeing UK/UEFA lose an extra 3 votes in FIFA). Yet that has been the case for nearly 60 years (since the Home Nations re-entry) and such a prospect is also as far away as ever.
And when it comes to it, as the continuing existence of a separate Hong Kong international team and FA since its re-absorption into China demonstrates, even a politically united Ireland is no guarantee that the IFA - the world's 4th oldest Association - will be required to disband"
If that's the best you can come up with, you might have been better advised to say nothing, or at least used

Tired old cynical posters should retire gracefully.
The title of the thread is Martin O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team and Pat Jennings was also forthright in his opinions. That makes it NI legends talking about it when NI are doing well. Or do you not recognise the names of legends like Jennings and O'Neill as being representative of Northern Ireland?

If you read what was written, O'Neill didn't actually give his backing; rather, he mused on the effect if it were to happen. As for PJ, I have no problem whatever with his views/preferences, since these include fond reminiscences of his father taking him and older brother Brian when they were kids to WP to watch NI play; through representing NI 119 times and never failing to answer the call; to working for the IFA after he stopped playing; to his son opting to represent NI at under-age level; to his recent journalism and interviews where he has spoken loudly and proudly of the NI support.
And no thanks, but I really don't need you to remind me of the legendary status of those two great players. Nor of the very many other NI greats whose opinions on the subject may be somewhat different - if anyone were to choose to ask them, that is.

Just the same as the OWC is not now and will not anytime soon be a team that the majority of Nationalists will identify with, even if the bad old days when Jennings got abused from sections are long gone.

I daresay there are e.g. Catalans, Basques, Galicians etc who don't "identify" with the Spanish National team. Or Irish Nationalists who don't identify with the ROI football team. Even NI Unionists who don't identify with the NI football team. Beats me how any of that has got anything to do with the future integrity of the Spain, ROI or NI teams, or FIFA's attitude to them.
(Oh, and the bad old days when PJ got abused by a handful of ********s was back in the 1960's. The rest of us have moved on a hell of a sight since these days, even if you haven't. More importantly, so has Big Pat)

The idea of a one off all Ireland team 35 years ago required a level of dynamism that a big character like Dougan provided to cut through the cynicism and the suits.

Since it is contrary to the whole Rules, Principles and History of FIFA, a whole team of Derek Dougans isn't going to push a United Ireland team through anytime soon.
Besides which, I wouldn't be at all surprised if behind the scenes Louis Kilcoyne played just as big a part as Dougan in organising it. After all, there was money involved...
Anyhow, something often overlooked as playing a part in thwarting Dougan's ambitions, was that it was not just the IFA who were hostile. According to Eoin Hand, the FAI was none too keen, either, which presumably accounts for the team not being e.g. an "FAI Invitation XI",, or somesuch.

On a more serious level as in a competitive united team it would require a hell of a lot more that most people think it's too big a step.

Well Done! You got that bit right.

No problem for me. An exciting adventure.

Good for you, but we'll stick with our 128 years of History, if you don't mind, since it's too precious for us to discard, especially when our present and future look so "exciting" as they do!

In the meantime, anyone born in the North is entitled to citizenship and play for us, will have to do

For the moment.

P.S. Darron Who?

Id have no problem seeing a team with an 87 year proud record disappear as I am sure it would be for the greater good and lead us on to better things. They bring Tri colours and NI flags to rugby games so they could do the same for the football. Also when/if NI get an anthem accepable to all its citizens then it could be played along with Amhrain na Bhfiann. The only other issue would be home games. What about a compromise WC qualifer home games in Dublin and Euro qualifer games in Belfast. Friendlies in between WC games to be played in Belfast and likewise and friendlies in between Euro qualifiers to be played in Dublin.

If you had a poll on a UI team in Ireland it would pass no doubt and if you had a poll in the North I think it would pass (remember seeing the results of a poll on an All Ireland team on BBC Newsline and 59% were in favour. I think this would be fairly accurate give all nationalists would be in favour and a substantional number of protestants (eg George Best RIP and other broad minded individuals)

Even if correct, how is any of the above drivel going to persuade FIFA to tear up the Rulebook and allow the two Associations to merge (or require one to be subsumed)?

Seeing as the plans for a decent stadium in Belfast (or its environs) have been scuttled and the IFA are the real beggars when it comes to cash resources, I think it has to be Lansdowne Rd.

Wherever else the IFA decides to stage its home NI games, we can be absolutely certain it won't be in Dublin.

The people who raise this question, time after time, are from the North. They were from North this time, last time, and in the 70's. Dougan, Best, O'Neill, Jennings.

People like Giles get asked for their opinion after the matter is raised by a northerner, but people within the FAI have always been careful not to be seen to be suggesting it, or pressurising the north into it in any way.

Not in my experience. Even this time, O'Neill and Jennings were in Dublin when local reporters raised the subject with them and our boys did them the courtesy of sharing their thoughts. As for people in NI, we've long since known those players' views - they're no big deal and we've neither cause nor inclination to ask them to repeat them.
As for the FAI, I agree they don't raise the subject, both since they know there's no point in raising tensions over a hopeless cause and also out of concern for their own positions. (Mind you, it would be consistent and decent of them if they ceased their efforts to subvert our Association by inveigling NI-born youngsters behind the scenes)

In the short term the thing most likely to bring the island together on the field is an all ireland league, something the Glens are very much in favour of Ealing.

As the Royal and Baltic Leagues demonstrate, the existence of any cross-border League need have no impact on the separate status of the international teams or Associations.
As for the Glens, thank you for pointing out to me their agreement in principle to such a League. As one who knows so much about that club, no doubt you will also be aware that if their participation in any such League were in any way to jeopardise the IFA/NI team, they'd be out of it quicker than you could say "Derek Dougan".

If it did happen, McCartney would start every game for me, as would Evans if Andy O'Brien doesn't change his mind. Kyle Lafferty would certainly be on the bench and there could be up to another half dozen in the squad.

As for symbols the North's badge is far better than anything the FAI have ever had for a start. There are plenty of potential flags, the cross of St. Pat or the Blue flag for example.

Ireland Call is there as an anthem but its a dirge, as is Danny Boy for that matter. But the Fields of Athenry is an option or for something to really belt out a truncated version of the Irish Rover

Enjoy your dream. Wet one was it?

And for the record, I very much doubt it would be the IFA disappearing. much more likely if it were to happen the 26 counties would simply re-apply for membership of the Irish Football Association, followed by an EGM to put through the paperwork.

Technically, there may not be anything to stop the FAI finally admitting they made a mistake all those years ago and asking to be readmitted to the IFA ("original and best"). That said, I could see it causing a few problems in the wider community South of the Border, so it might be adviseable to take it one step at a time. Could I suggest an Application to re-join the Commonwealth, followed by the country's re-admission to the United Kingdom and then the FAI can hold its EGM...

P.S. Don't automatically assume we'd have you, mind

[geysir]

"Unless or until a politically-united Ireland should happen, then a united Ireland team has no chance of ever happening. If nothing else, this is because FIFA has never in its history agreed to two separate, sovereign Nations, or parts of such Nations, combining their international teams into one. There is no reason why they should; by contrast, there are any number of reasons why they shouldn't (or wouldn't want to).

I shortened the meandering wishwash.
You are the one saying that FIFA would not agree.
A joint application by the IFA and FAI would have to be sent into UEFA/FIFA. It's a side issue that eligibility is already not an issue but an interesting one nevertheless, which UEFA or FIFA statute prevents them from accepting Ireland as one football federation, fielding one international team?
Please refer to UEFA FIFA statutes for member application.

If you read what was written, O'Neill didn't actually give his backing; rather, he mused on the effect if it were to happen. As for PJ, I have no problem whatever with his views/preferences etc etc

You are the poster who sarcastically claimed that it was only Republic fans who mentioned the United Ireland international team when their team wasn't doing well. It was pointed out to you by a number of posters that this thread exists because of Martin O'Neill's comments. Deal with it. Act your tired years with some semblance of maturity. Both O'Neill and Jennings comments were of sufficient interest to stimulate debate. The last time we had debate here on this was due to George Best's comments on an United Ireland team.

(Oh, and the bad old days when PJ got abused by a handful of ********s was back in the 1960's. The rest of us have moved on a hell of a sight since these days, even if you haven't. More importantly, so has Big Pat)

I have moved on, I'm sure the OWC have moved on but it doesn't mean my memory for facts is wiped out.
Pat Jennings at the time the Lennon saga.
"It’s just crazy and I experienced it right through my international career as a Catholic. I got a fair bit of stick, probably because I was closer to the support than any of the other players"

[Superhoops]

Is O'Neills involvement in this anything to do with the fact he has '32' emblazoned across his chest at every Villa game?

[geysir]

Wherever else the IFA decides to stage its home NI games, we can be absolutely certain it won't be in Dublin.

"Absolutely certain" sounds bitter and grumpy. After all, we are all Irish.
Does that mean in the event of NI having to play it's games outside NI you would feel less at home in new Lansdowne than say in Stranraer, Tranmere or Wrexham?