I wouldn't begrudge NI their successes with good teams and other times punching above their weight.
I'd say our head to head record demonstrates the superior class of the Republic over the last 30 years as supported by our FIFA average rank of 27.
1978 - 2008
Competitive Qualifier games
played 8 . Republic win 3: draws 4 : lost 1.
and when we win, we win good
...can't believe I'm taking your bait but just for a laugh and for illustrative purposes stand up at the top of the class and name them off there like a good lad.Originally Posted by Norn Iron
I will acknowledge you made big strides post Jack Charlton in only having half your squad born in the UK for 2002 WC.Certainly compared to the heady days of Italia 90 when 9 of the players who played against England were from the UK.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Whoops. Apologies for that. I'm nipping back up the page to correct the formatting.
Here's the team for your game v England at WC 1990:...can't believe I'm taking your bait but just for a laugh and for illustrative purposes stand up at the top of the class and name them off there like a good lad.
RoI: Bonner - Morris, Staunton, McCarthy (c), Moran - McGrath, Houghton, Townsend, Aldridge (65 McLoughlin) - Cascarino, Sheedy.
(My italics)
I make that eight who grew up/ played schools football in Britain, not nine as claimed.
Last edited by Gather round; 12/04/2008 at 11:31 AM.
You really are trying to avoid the point I'm making here.
GAA sports at inter-county level (followed mainly by nationalist community in NI - 50% pop. 0.5 million) can on a regular basis get crowds of 40k+. Ulster GAA have asked to use Croke Park for some of their bigger matches - Tyrone v. Armagh (who would meeting a couple of times a year) which has a capacity of 80K. Croke Park as well as being the national stadium also caters for Leinster games. Ulster GAA need a stadium that can take 40k+ - might be the reason the 'GAA demanded' it and it is public money you are talking about here.
Association Football which is cross community
Do you not think there is something odd about this?
Unlike the IFA, the FA, SFA FAW, FAI, GAA & IRFU, all had to come up with matching funding (the FAI sold its HQ in Merrion Sq). The IFA have been offered a FREE STADIUM (South of England tax payers are paying for it) and you are still moaning!
Well, I'm going to the Leinster v. Munster game this evening - its a sell out at 18k. If Lansdowne was ready, it would probably fill that. 10 years ago at this fixture there would have been three men and a dog! Oh and rugby isn't as popular as Gaelic or Football down here!Don't want to get side-tracked onto Welsh football/rugby. Suffice it to say, just ask anyone who knows the true situation in Wales, who isn't either a football-hating egg chaser or someone who has swallowed the WRFU spin, and they will tell you that football in Wales is still bigger than rugby, by every measure, except international crowds on half a dozen occasions a year. And that has always been the case, btw
Hasn't had a chance to kick-in yet - give it another year or two or three ! NI fooball seemed to take Gibson's 'defection' rather badly! It probably needs time to recover from that shock.There appears presently to be nothing preventing any NI youngster - Prod, RC or Athiest - from opting for ROI (for whatever motive). So how exactly are we "holding them back"?
I'm glad the penny is beginning to drop that this just might happen!In fact, if you think about it, there is absolutely nothing to stop such a kid, after the requisite three years residence in Manchester or Glasgow, from representing England or Scotland - both of whom offer a much better chance of career advancement than either Irish team.
Respecting the identity of nationalist kids in NI might go a long way to holding onto their affiliations. For instance, with regard to preventing the No Surrender chants - anything suggest a very simple solution - use Danny Boy as your anthem! I'm sure the Queen would be very pleased if it helped her subjects to get on better together!But at the risk of straying (temporarily, I hope) from discussing a combined team to the issue of Eligibility for the two separate teams, I would not feel in the slightest bit guilty.
That is because I don't actually see which international team you represent as being a matter of "choice", any more than you can "choose" where you were born! The whole point about international football, as opposed to club football, is that you cannot just "pick and choose" who you play for.
This should especially be so (imo), to prevent mercenary considerations (money) prevailing over national pride when representing your country.
What is this thing that you have to 'own' everything on your terms.For myself, even if the best players from ROI or GB were suddenly made eligible for NI, so that we were guaranteed to qualify for every tournament, I would much rather do without, thanks very much, since it would no longer be "my" team, or "Our Wee Country".
I don't view NI as competition. Always happy to see NI do well.P.S. If ypou look at our record of qualifying for World Cup Finals, it is every bit as good as ROI's - arguably better, since we have also made it to the last 8 (1958) and last 12 (1982).
Well, if David Healy is a protestant and comes from the unionist community, it wouldn't surprise me that he wouldn't want to have anything to do with us down here! Certainly back in 2002, he probably would have been treated like a traitor of his own community and probably could have expected the Niall Lennon treatment!P.P.S. David Healy was formerly a talented kid in the MU Academy, who was just coming up to 23 when ROI went to Japan/Korea in 2002. I can guarantee you that had Mick McCarthy offered him a place on the plane, there would have been zero chance of his ever accepting. Which is precisely that sort of dedication which transforms him from a journeyman for his club to a star for his country. I don't ever want to see that removed from international football.
Admin, take a look at Norn Irons 3 posts to date. Draw your own conclusion!
lads will you just leave the Nordies alone? Just don't bite and it will all blow over.
We haven't qualified in a major tournament in 6 years, the North were last there over 20 years ago. We both finished 3rd in our last qualifying pool so I'd say we're equally as ****e as each other.
However we have now have a manager who doesn't just hand out the training bibs, has actually managed a few clubs in his lifetime and might even start playing people in their correct positions. We can only improve. Just wait it out lads. If we start picking up points our boys from the north will no longer be on here gloating about how many of our players played schoolboy football in England back in 1990.
...which would've been my count as well. I was allowing the claimant enough rope to assert or claim McGrath as being one "from the UK" ...as if that in itself lessened their right to represent us -on the basis he was born there (as was O'Leary).
For the record -I couldn't give a flying one if all 11 starters and the entire subs bench were born here, there or elsewhere provided they give it their all when they pull on that shirt. I don't do gradations of Irishness.
If they qualify they're ours and I couldn't care less if they'd previously been Morris Dancing Champions of all Albion. Frankly I find that idea a lot less disturbing than the whale in my nightmares that is Killer in his Irish Dancing costume.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
No, not really. We could notionally attract a much bigger crowd for a one-off match- against England, or the Republic, or a crucial qualifier. But 20,000- 25,000 is a sensible estimate of the typical/ average crowd if we're doing reasonably well. This is comparable to many other international sides across Europe. Granted it doesn't compare with GAA- good for them, as I said. As for the IRFU, 50,000 to watch a provincial game sounds genuinely impressive- do you think this will sustain, given how low crowds used to be and that the Ireland side have had a couple of poor tournamentsAssociation Football which is cross community
It isn't free- it has been costed at well over £200 million all in. Northern Ireland taxpayers would pay a disproportionate share of this. See relevant thread on NI/ IL section. Do you think public money grows on a tree somewhere?
I explained upthread why the movement of players is likely to remain a trickle- not least because, to get professional contracts in Britain, NI born players will benefit from having played for NI representative teams.
Brilliant!
Er, it's the basis for international football support. We want to support our team. Not some choice of Republic of Ireland, Great Britain or other foreign teams.
Janey Mac indeed, even by your standards this is convoluted
Got any more pointless hypotheses for us?
We'll still be on to answer the next comedian who suggests an all-Ireland side (ie, abolishing the NI one), of course
Otherwise, fair points, although I'd argue 20 points in a competitive 12 game league is a bit better than 17.
Are there any photos?
Last edited by Gather round; 12/04/2008 at 12:46 PM.
Funny thread.
People arguing about how bad the NI team are in a thread about why we should have an AI team.....
Why do we need an AI team again? Especially if they bring so little to the table
Well, I suppose if you are determined to keep it the way it is now, you just ain't going to get the numbers.
As regards the rugby - last interpro that I was at (Leinster v. Ulster), there was 48,000 at it. I believe about 20,000 came down to Dublin from Ulster for it (New Year's Eve). Ulster filled Lansdowne for their European Cup Final back in '99. Lots of local went along to support them! Lots of Norn Iron flags and no one batted an eyelid
GAA fans pay tax as well - since it appears there are a lot more than them, maybe they should have a greater say in the stadium - or maybe you think they are all work dodgers! And for feck sake, everyone knows that NI is an economic basket case and completely reliant on the south of England taxpayer to keep it afloat. We're throwing in a fair few bob as well to help ya out (4 billion?) so I'm delighted to hear you realise that money doesn't grow on trees.It isn't free- it has been costed at well over £200 million all in. Northern Ireland taxpayers would pay a disproportionate share of this. See relevant thread on NI/ IL section. Do you think public money grows on a tree somewhere?
Sure - but since they are minors they will get picked or do you think it would be a good plan to avoid picking kids from nationalist backgrounds in case they 'defect'?I explained upthread why the movement of players is likely to remain a trickle- not least because, to get professional contracts in Britain, NI born players will benefit from having played for NI representative teams.
What about what the players would want, after all they have to do a bit more than just turn up and wave a flag!Er, it's the basis for international football support. We want to support our team. Not some choice of Republic of Ireland, Great Britain or other foreign teams.
See no evil, hear no evil, there is no evil, right?Janey Mac indeed, even by your standards this is convoluted. If I came on here saying the Republic of Ireland, or its international team, should cease to exist, I'd get the Neil (sic) Lennon treatment. But I don't, so I won't. Got any more pointless hypotheses for us?
So Pat Jennings & Martin O'Neill are comedians now - and George Best was (he was a good laugh mind).We'll still be on to answer the next comedian who suggests an all-Ireland side (ie, abolishing the NI one), of course
Combining the two teams together might be an improvement maybe?
Personally, I'm happy the way it is, as long as ROI is free to select from the whole island!
Last edited by dahamsta; 04/06/2008 at 10:04 AM.
Surely not that much of an improvemet to be that bothered about it in purely footballing terms?
Not sure why some supporters of Worthington’s team find it strange that Ireland field players not born in the country, every team in Europe has done so for many years, including the North.
During the 90’s the North could have fielded a full team of English born players, and at times had no less than six such players in the starting eleven.
Ian Dowie, Kevin Wilson, Trevor wood, , Kingsley Black, Kevin Horlock, Jon McCarthy, Ian Nolan, Iain Jenkins, Danny Sonner,Mark Williams Adrain Coote & Lawrie Sanchez are all English born and represented the North during the period.
And that’s apart from Zambian born brothers Jeff & Jim Whitley, Norwegian Tony Capaldi and German born Maik Taylor.
The difference was that our lads helped us qualify for World cup finals and their lads helped them into.. footballing obscurity.
No FIFA or UEFA regulations were broken by either team.
Last edited by co. down green; 12/04/2008 at 3:58 PM. Reason: .
To be honest with you no - but if either side produced even one world class player a la Pat Jennings/Roy Keane it could make all the difference to actually qualifying for a competition - and we could all have a good time!
Apart from the NI fans who have lost their team......
I dunno. I think maybe I just have a very different view of what international football should be about than other people.
But throwing 2 teams together in the hope that NI will at some stage produce a world class player to help us makes no sense to me in footballing terms.
Well, working together/on the same side can also be good for the two parts of this island. Northerners (some of whom had never been to Dublin and would regard Ulster Rugby as the NI rugby team) who were at the HCup final in '99 have commented on how heartwarming that whole occasion was and they were blown away with the support and welcome they got the whole way down to Dublin (usual GAA type "good luck" signs etc on the way down and southern support at the match).
I would think it would be right that if say NI produced another George Best that they get the best chance possible to perform on the world stage. For instance, I think it is a dreadful shame that Ryan Giggs never got to a major competition.
Last edited by janeymac; 12/04/2008 at 2:23 PM.
But thats not footballing reasons though.
And its easy for us to be magnamimous when we will always be the major partner in these teams. Even reading through this thread people think they might get one player in.
So what would Northern Irish football fans have to support?
They lose their team, lose their identity, with what benefits for them? The possibility of a team that they dont feel represents them getting to a major finals?
And there are plenty of other fantastic players that were in the same boat. But thats the nature of International football. its not about how good you/your team are its about national pride.
It may be a shame Giggs never made a finals but is it reason enough for Wales to merge with England. Or for any small team to merge with a bigger team for the sake of making a finals.
Again, for me, thats not what international football is about
Last edited by dahamsta; 04/06/2008 at 10:05 AM.
This is a key point.
I said earlier in the thread that the term "United Ireland Team" is a misnomer, as all of Ireland would not be united in support of it.
People need to realise that the argument used about the NI football team - that it is not representative of all the people in NI, and some feel alienated by it - would be equally applicable regarding a "united Ireland team" in the current climate.
As Ealing Green said earlier, it needs to be something supported by both sides.
Furthermore, I'd only like to see such a union as a result of a politically united Ireland, not before.
Just in case there are brownie points for that revelation, the pertinent point about the IFA and FAI needing to agree was made in a reply to EG well before he recycled it in one of his posts in the thread.
It's important to point out that it is in fact former NI internationals that have spoken out in support of an United Ireland team. And, as such, it's only right that we politely consider their proposal and analyse what NI have to offer.
In fairness its how many people? 3? Out of how many that have played for them in the last how many years?It's important to point out that it is in fact former NI internationals that have spoken out in support of an United Ireland team. And, as such, it's only right that we politely consider their proposal and analyse what NI have to offer.
Ffs Im sure youd find 3 Irish players who'd think itd be a great idea if we merged with England cos they live there.....but we wouldnt be taking them seriously either.
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