Ehhh... Bonner buggered in big games for IRELAND.... who cares about NewcastleOriginally Posted by amaccann
Stan... was a rubbish manager.... but over 103 caps for Ireland he was a great Irish International....... Left Back / Left Midfield , even Center Midfield away to Portugal in 1995 and then Center Half .... Regardless of his lack of class of Saipan and his failings as a Manager , he was a class player for 14 YEARS for Ireland... up to the 1994 W Cup Finals he was top notch.... he dipped after that , but the 2002 campaign he did his fair share
Top of the list by a million miles is one Paul Butler, then of Sunderland, who played the first half of the game against Czech Republic at Lansdowne Road in 2000. Mick McCarthy apparently rated him, and game him a run - albeit, it was a friendly.
After a torrid first half, in which he was cleaned out by Jan Koeller (two goals), he was hauled off at half-time, and never darkened the door of the Irish dressing room subsequently.
One to rival Butler...
Surely Mickey "A 12 year old found I existed on the Internet" Evans is a good tout for any 11...
And saved our bacon in countless others. Goalkeepers are more prone to have their mistakes highlighted than others, it's scarcely fair to judge Bonner on the basis of a couple of slips. Certainly in the case of that famous flap against Holland in '94, we were well beaten in that game anyway, with or without that blunder.
Curtis Fleming was a decent player. I wouldn't have him in a worst XI. I would take him ahead of John O'Shea. I could think of the likes of Davy Savage, Barry Quinn, etc. These guys got a few caps and were really limited players.
'And Crouch must score'
While we're talking about obscure international players, is it worth pointing out some of the lads who made the bench for Ireland over the years but never made an appearance? Thinking of Ger Crossley, Jason Gavin (Mexico '98), Richie Partridge, Wes Hoolahan (Greece, '02). I also think Shaun Thornton might have been there at one stage (Norway 2003?). Anyone else?
There seems to be two schools here - one promulgating the evil of the "One (or two) Cap Wonders" and one which suggests that you really ought to have been consistently bad for Ireland, some seem to take the attitude that if you ever screwed up, you earn your place, which covers almost every Irish player in the past 128 years, never mind 28. Might I suggest we have some rules on a selecting a seriously bad Irish XI.
1. All players must have played in 10 accreditted games for the full senior international team during the period described, and their efforts in that period alone count towards their lack of example for Ireland.
2. Their badness must be divided out over ALL their games (no "John Aldridge from 1986 to 1989").
3. Their badness must be for the full senior international team - no amount of valiant efforts for their club, U21s or the B team may count towards their badness, nor vice versa in argument.
4. Teams should be in the national formation, and players named must have played in those positions at least once
This unfortunately would rule out Paul Butler, Mickey Evans and a host of deserving players, but they may have the consolation of being examples of the single worst performances ever hosted by an Irish jersey.
My selection, under these rules:
GK Alan Kelly (34 caps)
RB Maybury (10)
LB Fleming (10)
CB Babb (35)
CB Kernaghan (26) - According to Wiki, currently youth coach at Rangers - is this a first?
RM McGoldrick (15)
LM O'Shea (45 - played there for one of the Swiss games I think)
CM Carsley (36)
CM Kennedy (34)
FW Doherty (36)
FW Coyne (22)
As you can see, they are almost exclusively from the post 1988 period, probably because I couldn't tell good from bad as well as a kid and they were all heroes in my eyes.
That question was less stupid, though you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Help me, Arthur Murphy, you're my only hope!
Under Bluebard's rules, neither Carsley nor Coyne would qualify.
Since his return, Carsley has held the team together (admittedly under Stan's reign) so couldn't be considered "consistently bad".
Tommy Coyne - though never the greatest - led the line on his own in USA 94 (was it Jack who first invented the five man midfield ?) and performed very bravely up there on his own.
Carsley certainly qualifies - I can remember only one game he was any good under Stan, and a few stinkers, though I only saw about three quarters of the Stan era; furthermore, his paucity of ability in the pre-Moyes-period still plunges him South of passable. Essentially, this is covered by rule 2 - his (extremely) short good period is also divided over all his games. If one or two games does not make a player "bad", then one or two cannot make him "good".
Coyne, I would agree with you on to a degree - he was unlucky with his time co-inciding with 4-5-1 system worked by Charlton, and very brave without much support. However, it doesn't mean he was not one of our weaker players on the field based on those performances - regularly it was after he went off (Italy game aside) that our performances picked up. Coyne pipped Connolly for it because Connolly scored proportionately more goals (the principle task of striker - Coyne scored once every 5.5 games, Connolly once every 4.5) and generally contributed more to play, largely thanks to not being the lone striker. Personally, given a choice I'd rate Coyne ahead of Connolly, but based on performance for the national team...
I believe the Italians invented the five man midfield, and I certainly saw some dodgy bottom of the first division teams use it in the LOI before that, but I think Charlton was the first to use it internationally on these islands.
Last edited by Bluebeard; 01/04/2008 at 11:50 AM.
That question was less stupid, though you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Help me, Arthur Murphy, you're my only hope!
Subsitutes on Bluebeard's team:
for Carsley - subsitute Graham Kavanagh
For Coyne- substitute David Connolly
now there's a decent "consistently bad" first XI
Mark Kennedy's goals v Yugo was one of the best in Lansdowne over the years... also his honesty in telling Mick in 2002 he was inj showed more respect than his mate Jayo
1. Gerry Peyton
2. Chris Morris
3. Phil Babb
4. Phil Babb
5. Eddie McGoldrick
6. Phil Babb
7. John O'shea
8. Paul Butler
9. Phil Babb
10. David Connolly
11. John O'shea
That's all true but unfortunately it doesn't overturn the fact that he was still sh*t.
The OP seems like a WUM to me.
Chris Morris wasn't great but he was a solid defender. Didn't offer much going forward but should be nowhere near a worst XI
Anyone who thinks Bonner should be just isn't that bright.
McGoldrick actually wasn't that bad for Ireland. Had a very good game in Denmark when we needed that draw over there.
There is no such thing as a miracle cure, a free lunch or a humble opinion.
Hello!
I can't believe that people are leaving picking Stephen Reid over a player like Graham Kavanagh!
Couldn't pass, tackle or cross!
Bonner
Morris
Harte
Kernaghan (c)
Babb
Mc Goldrick
Miller
Healy
Douglas
Connolly
Morrisson
Give me one example of where Alan Kelly was poor - He was a great keeper for club and country. Bonner made mistake upon mistake and was brutal with the backpass. He is still a legend but was never a super kepper.
I remember being in Anfield for the playoff against Holland in 96 and that night we would have been beaten by a hell of alot more than 2 only for Alan Kelly. Always thought he was a very good keeper
Its really not that complicated!!!
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