We should try get Flares permitted again.

[sligoman]

Rather than this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/3254094.stm

Does this mean we should ban driving?

[Réiteoir]

If done in a controlled manner with proper methods of disposing spent tubes in a proper area of the ground (as the NBB and such have done over the years) - then yes

If it's some yahoo cracking one open recklessly in the middle of a packed grandstand then no

[BohsPartisan]

What should happen but won't -
Designated areas for Ultras in stadia with sand buckets etc. for putting out flares.
Groups collectively responsible for their safe use within these designated areas.

[HarpoJoyce]

Perhaps the reason English/British football disallows flares maybe 'cos they have got it in the face ...figurativily.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/s...981917,00.html
Paul Bodin about Wales:Romania 1993 Wc Qualifier Cardiff Arms Park "..but people were obviously going to blame me because of the [penalty] miss. I got some stick for it, but things were put into perspective when we found out a fan had been killed by a flare. He came to watch a football match and never went home."

What happened was, some Welsh supporters on one side of a double-decker stand. IGNITED a flare, wrong kind..oopps, distress flare,(one what goes a distance and then explodes increasing the signal of distress). The flare, on this occassion, went across the stadium into another football (Ass. Football not rugby) fan. Killed him too.

IRA songs? What planet do you go to football games on?
BTW that story is about Wales not getting to the WC!

IT's unfair I have to requote my own posts, unfortunately there is a sentence and a half about the death of a football supporter in the Observer article. It is true the article is more about the match and not the death. I quoted the releveant part on the post. 1993, I did look for a more dominant article.

You do mention about the safety inside of stadiums, Dalyer (HoIF) has being allowed alot of leeway.

I have being to Irish football matches where I have heard Irish political chanting.

Why don't you choose to comment on the handling of such material. Quoted by myself and others.

"Just Say NO to UXO" (Unexploded Ordinance.)

[Red Army]

I'd be totally against professional displays they are passionless, soulless and a complete mockery of the ultra way of life. The whole point of using pyro is part of the ultra mentality they're banned all over Europe but groups still use them. Yes they add to the atmosphere but they are also and more importantly an act of defiance against modern football and stupid OTT health and safety rules.

Libertá per gli Ultras

(btw anyone wearing a poxy wig at games should have flares thrown at them)

[BohsPartisan]

@Harpo
Sorry, skimmed through the article in the link and missed that.
They were obviously inexperienced and none of the Ultras groups here use that type of flare and know the difference.
One incident involving a different type of flare than what is normally used does not make your case.

What games did you hear political chanting at? We don't have any "IRA" chants anyway.

What exactly did you quote about the handling? Do you mean that link to the Citizens Advice Bureau website?
All that is is legal material on fireworks.

[gufct]

The club or the FAI will not be covered by their insurers if anyone is injured or worse. Are the "Ultras" going to be able to pay compensation to anybody who is injured or worse.

It is virtually impossible to quench a flare or smoke bomb once lit even covering it with sand.

The Video is actually made by UEFA and the Swiss Police and its not bullsh**t . Ive actually had 2 jerseys destroyed by clowns who dont even know how to hold a flare.

[Red Army]

I would like to know what person/group decided one day to bring a flare or a cuple of them to a football match.Holding one in an unreal experience.Total mayham,I love it

I often wondered that myself too. Hajduk Split' ultras Torcida say they were the first but it's unfounded

[HarpoJoyce]

BohsPartisan,

You deserve a response, I used the IRA chanting as an emotive response to the 'there's no harm with flares' argument from some on the thread. Its also a reminder why we have some legislation on certain things. (Live broadcasting and security around the broadcast of live images is also legislated)

I posted the citizen's Advice Bureau on Fireworks as a legit, know your entitlements, for those wishing to handle or control some products. There was a 'Sparkler' display earlier in the thread as evidence of athmosphere

I understand the attraction of pyrotechnics, (I tried to source 'Blue' Flares in the past), its just pyrotechnics is very close to pyromania and the 'techies have to have clear reasons for the displays.

Is Segregation of fans in the stadium a legitimate reason to bring in a display?

[BohsPartisan]

The club or the FAI will not be covered by their insurers if anyone is injured or worse. Are the "Ultras" going to be able to pay compensation to anybody who is injured or worse.

Melodrama at its worst. Again where have people actually been injured?
If we are going to ban anything that can potentially cause injury then lets start with the things most likely to do so:
Alcohol
Cars
Tobacco
Tall Buildings - People might fall off or something
Bottles over 100 ml on flights... Oh, wait.

Lets introduce a curfew while we're at it sure there are always people getting injured late at night outside pubs and clubs

@ Harpo
I don't quite understand the question at the end of your post.

[Bluebeard]

Does this mean we should ban driving?

I'm going to go with yes for that. We should all be taking the train or cycling to football games.

Oh, how I yearn to see the masses of football fans arriving from miles around for the big game, untucking their trouser legs from their socks, re-adjusting their flat caps, smoothing down their moustaches, before producing fine home made rattles from capacious pockets, ready to watch two teams of decent men playing for the love of the game, earning no more than these fine examples of working men watching them.

If only we could get that back. You can shove your flares up your jacksies - bring the flat cap audience back to football!

[BohsPartisan]

Pah, they'd probably ban flat caps to if they became popular!

[dcfcsteve]

You obviously don't have a clue.
1. English football has no atmosphere
2. You call people who use flares kids, yet you wear wigs to matches Go to any country bar bar england/scotland and they have a proper atmosphere, guess what they use flares.

That *woosh* sound in your ears isn't someone chucking a lit flare - it;'s the sound of my post going way over your head.

I stated that the English league has atmosphere issues. Your sugestion that flares are the reason is laughable.

You are portraying flares as the be-all and end-all of atmosphere. They are not. I have been to literally dozens of matches in numerous countries with superb atmospheres, and not a flare in-sight. I've also been at games with good atmospheres where there merel;y coinicdentally been flares, and usually it's just a case of 'oh look - someone's got a flare over there', and then looking back at the game 3 secs later. I've also been to games with average or crap atmospheres where flares have been used - invariably by some bored eejit thinking it is atmosphere in a stick.

Time for a serious dose of reality. Flares are not the cornerstone of atmosphere at a game. Far from it. By virtue of their design they only last a couple of minutes - and that's if you don't get them taken off you. Hence they have minimal impact on the atmosphere of a 90+min game. I've yet to hear anyone banging on about the great flares at a game of football they went to - but you often hear talk about chants, banners etc It is usually only when you have a very large amount of flares at a game that it makes any sort of big meaningful impression anyway. That takes a lot of organisatioon - and even then only lasts a few minutes.

If you want to boost the atmosphere at a game, sort some imaginative and creative displays that don't involve a few puffs of smoke and breaking an international football regulation. Seriously - use some imagination.

[BohsPartisan]

I've yet to hear anyone banging on about the great flares at a game of football they went to - but you often hear talk about chants, banners etc It is usually only when you have a very large amount of flares at a game that it makes any sort of big meaningful impression anyway. That takes a lot of organisatioon - and even then only lasts a few minutes.

If you want to boost the atmosphere at a game, sort some imaginative and creative displays that don't involve a few puffs of smoke and breaking an international football regulation. Seriously - use some imagination.

If pyro didn't enhance atmosphere, why the torchlight processions at Lourdes?
No one is claiming flares are the be all and end all but they can enhance atmosphere along with the other things you mention. I think if they are over-used or used in the wrong context thenit devalues them but you can't deny Drogheda's flare display at pats after they won the league wasn't atmosphere enhancing, our flare use at the cross or the smokies we used at the brandywell, tolka and at home. If you want to stick to the rules then you can't bring flags or flag poles either btw.

[SÓC]

Incorrect. Flares can be legally purchased at many locations throughout the Republic of Ireland. Most notably in marine equipment stores.

As a slight aside the Irish law prohibiting the sale and use of fireworks is an antiquated piece of rubbish legislation drafted in well over a hundred years ago to outlaw the use of gunpowder as a method of (ahem) "solving" local disputes. It is HIGH TIME that it too was redrafted and updated.

Part 6 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 updated a fair bit of the fireworks laws

Lighting a flare at a football match is a specific offence in the UK

[mediahack]

That child was far too young to be in a standing section in the first place. And besides it wasn't his eye it was part of his jacket collar got damaged IIRC, no way was it as serious as an eye anyway. Not saying it should have happened though. IMO flares/smoke should only be done by fans, not companies.

Give me a break HF - the child was with his father in the stand at the RSC - he ended up in the hospital and was treated for an eye injury.

Then you say these flares/smoke should only be done by fans, not companies - what planet are you on?

A smoke bomb was let off in the stand at the RSC last season during the cup game and caused a lot of problems up there cos the smoke couldn't escape and there were people who experienced respiratory problems as a result. I was at there and that smoke was choking!

People go to watch football, not be subjected to any danger - such actions breach Health & Safety legislation.

The issue is these flares & smoke are dangerous and if even one person in a ground suffers as a result then it is wrong.

[half_full]

Give me a break HF - the child was with his father in the stand at the RSC - he ended up in the hospital and was treated for an eye injury.

Then you say these flares/smoke should only be done by fans, not companies - what planet are you on?

A smoke bomb was let off in the stand at the RSC last season during the cup game and caused a lot of problems up there cos the smoke couldn't escape and there were people who experienced respiratory problems as a result. I was at there and that smoke was choking!

People go to watch football, not be subjected to any danger - such actionsbreach Health & Safety legislation.

The issue is these flares & smoke are dangerous and if even one person in a ground suffers as a result then it is wrong.

Completely untrue. Even if it was the case, which its not, passive smoking is far far more dangerous.

As for the child, I'm 99.9% certain it wasn't an eye injury. And the person who let off the flare wasn't a member of our Ultra group down here. If experienced members of Ultra groups leave them off then there is no problem what so ever - its a different matter if someone uses them who doesn't know what they are doing.

As said already, third parties using flares and smoke at matches is soulless and completely pointless.

[KevB76]

I've yet to hear anyone banging on about the great flares at a game of football they went to....

There was a flare at L37 v Shels last year. There was already a good atmosphere, but the flare undeniably added to it. Largely because 1. it was unexpected and 2. the timing was brilliant relative to what was going on in the game. People were "banging on" about how they enjoyed the flare (check the L37 threads if you wish).

I would agree with BohsPartisan that they dont have the same value if they are over-used or just used for the sake of it.

and in keeping with some of the silly arguments on this thread, I would also add that flags should be banned because I nearly got an eye taken out of my head on two occasions last season (thanks LTiD ).

I also got hit a hefty whack of a ball off my bonce, so can we ban the balls as well please