Drimnagh Stabbings

[Billsthoughts]

So I'm sorry if you or some family and friends are gardai, but I genuinely have nothing but contempt for each and everyone of them

no I am not a guard but like you say I do have a lot of freinds who are. like myself or yourself they are just ordinary people doing a job. they have good and bad days like ourselves. like any workplace you have commited people and you have wasters. the day my brother got sick a neighbour who was a guard resucitated him meaning we had an extra few days with him. it would have been under very difficult circumstances he did this. another one organised a garda escort for the hearse without being asked. other examples i dont really want to go into. Im sure like teachers or nurses they go into the job all wide eyed and planning to make a real differance. a few months in a world where kids are stabbing men in the head with screwdrivers soon brings out the cynic in even the most idealistic.

[Greenforever]

Firstly my deepest sympathies to all the relatives and friends of the deceased.


To those slagging off the Gardai, the vast majority of them do as good a job as they can with the very limited resources they have. It has to be soul destroying for them to know that after bringing a scumbag to court, he gets probation or a suspended sentence and is back on the streets before the Garda even gets the associted paperwork done in his station and back out to real policing.

What has really p***** me off is Berties comments expressing his shock etc at the incident. I don't think there are too many people shocked by what has happened, disgusted yes, because that is what everybody should be, but to say shocked is to give the impression they didn't believe something like this could happen in this country when we all know there is a generation of out of control scumbags doing what they like with no regard for human life, not even their own.

As regards the Chinesese (could be different nationality) guy inClare Hall, he should get a medal, while possibly not the cleverest thing to do, whos to know if he hadnt attacked them his kid could easily have ended up dead.

[Lionel Ritchie]

As regards the Chinesese (could be different nationality) guy inClare Hall, he should get a medal, while possibly not the cleverest thing to do, whos to know if he hadnt attacked them his kid could easily have ended up dead.

The tabs, like their UK parent publications, absolutley delight in "Have-a-Go-Hero" stories. I'm just glad he didn't get seriously hurt. When confronted by armed chavscum it's generally best to just give them whatever gets them out of your face. I know that involves swallowing pride but there's simply no percentage in altercating with people who are far more pre-disposed to using lethal force than the average Joe.

Similarily the two Polish lads probably wouldn't have had the experience in reading a situation, in dealing with local chavs, to just keep walking. That's the most important thing in those incidents ...getting yourself off "the X" as it were and out of the situation.

[Greenforever]

The tabs, like their UK parent publications, absolutley delight in "Have-a-Go-Hero" stories. I'm just glad he didn't get seriously hurt. When confronted by armed chavscum it's generally best to just give them whatever gets them out of your face. I know that involves swallowing pride but there's simply no percentage in altercating with people who are far more pre-disposed to using lethal force than the average Joe.

Similarily the two Polish lads probably wouldn't have had the experience in reading a situation, in dealing with local chavs, to just keep walking. That's the most important thing in those incidents ...getting yourself off "the X" as it were and out of the situation.

I would agree, but noone knows how they will react until in the situation, and even if in this case he had given them the money or whatever there is no guarantee they would not have stabbed the kid. Any one convicted of holding knife to a kids throat should get life without parole.

[jebus]

"each and everyone of them"

Jebus, you can't condemn a large group of people, the vast, vast majority of whom you've never met, based on the action of a select few you've seen in action. You can't say they are representative of the rest.

I'll let ye know I have friends and relatives who are cops before I continue on here.

Anyway I say I have contempt for each and every one of them because each and every one of them allow this half hearted approach to policing to continue. I haven't heard of many gaurds coming out against the bully boy tactics of their fellow Gardai, I haven't heard of many gaurds pulling their fellow officers up on their racist abuse of some of our minority groups, and I haven't heard of any gaurds coming out and saying that they need to do better in all areas (which they do). What I do get from my friends and relatives in the force is the same tired excuses I've just heard here about 'little resources in the face of criminals', which is just passing the buck for a bunch of lazy ****ers to sponge off their job at the expense of our safety.

If the Gardai feel they are under-resourced then bring it to full media attention, it's not like people wouldn't back them for more manpower. If they don't like getting involved in certain areas (fights etc.) then DON'T DO THE ****ING JOB. I wouldn't want to get involved among a gang fighting each other on O'Connell St on Sat, and so I have never considered becoming a gaurd, if some of these wasters don't want to do likewise then I suggest they do what I did and not go for the job. I can only assume, that like my friends who joined, they joined up for the decent pay and pension that goes with the job, and are trying to blag their way through their work.

Back on the under-resourced point, who ever accepts that for people doing a bad job? If your insurance company were taking a year to sort out your claim because of lack of manpower wouldn't you raise hell with them? If you called for a fire brigade to come to your home, and they showed up 5 hours later after your house had been ravaged you'd do likewise wouldn't you? Why do the spongers in the Gardai Siochana always get left off with their pitiful excuses? Irish people being Irish is the answer

[Dodge]

Just on the point of the lds who've done the deed. They aren't junkies

Scumbags certainly. Junkies, no...

[Greenforever]

I'll let ye know I have friends and relatives who are cops before I continue on here.

Anyway I say I have contempt for each and every one of them because each and every one of them allow this half hearted approach to policing to continue. I haven't heard of many gaurds coming out against the bully boy tactics of their fellow Gardai, I haven't heard of many gaurds pulling their fellow officers up on their racist abuse of some of our minority groups, and I haven't heard of any gaurds coming out and saying that they need to do better in all areas (which they do). What I do get from my friends and relatives in the force is the same tired excuses I've just heard here about 'little resources in the face of criminals', which is just passing the buck for a bunch of lazy ****ers to sponge off their job at the expense of our safety.

If the Gardai feel they are under-resourced then bring it to full media attention, it's not like people wouldn't back them for more manpower. If they don't like getting involved in certain areas (fights etc.) then DON'T DO THE ****ING JOB. I wouldn't want to get involved among a gang fighting each other on O'Connell St on Sat, and so I have never considered becoming a gaurd, if some of these wasters don't want to do likewise then I suggest they do what I did and not go for the job. I can only assume, that like my friends who joined, they joined up for the decent pay and pension that goes with the job, and are trying to blag their way through their work.

Back on the under-resourced point, who ever accepts that for people doing a bad job? If your insurance company were taking a year to sort out your claim because of lack of manpower wouldn't you raise hell with them? If you called for a fire brigade to come to your home, and they showed up 5 hours later after your house had been ravaged you'd do likewise wouldn't you? Why do the spongers in the Gardai Siochana always get left off with their pitiful excuses? Irish people being Irish is the answer

With a post like that you have a serious attitude problem. I've many friends in the Gardai and would not accuse them of being spongers. They work very long hours and are regularly risking their life to protect us. Not all members of the force are perfect but the majority are.

Your insurance company, you choose and they are a commercial operation profit driven so to compare them to the Gardai is childish.

The ratio of fire officers per call out is much lower than the ratio of Gardai to call out, so any complaints relay them to your local government TD.

To give you an idea of how few Gardai we have, if every member of the Gardai to include trainess as well were put on road traffic duty at the same time and were spaced equally all over the country there would be 8km between each and every Garda. Now as they have to operate 24/7and also have holidays etc if all Gardai on shift at one time were on our roads they each would be 32km apart. (figures supplied by Garda Managemnt)

The Gardai are not perfect no more than the FAi or any other body but the vast majority do the job to the best of their ability with the limited resources they have at their disposal.

[Billsthoughts]

I'll let ye know I have friends and relatives who are cops before I continue on here.

Anyway I say I have contempt for each and every one of them because each and every one of them allow this half hearted approach to policing to continue. I haven't heard of many gaurds coming out against the bully boy tactics of their fellow Gardai, I haven't heard of many gaurds pulling their fellow officers up on their racist abuse of some of our minority groups, and I haven't heard of any gaurds coming out and saying that they need to do better in all areas (which they do). What I do get from my friends and relatives in the force is the same tired excuses I've just heard here about 'little resources in the face of criminals', which is just passing the buck for a bunch of lazy ****ers to sponge off their job at the expense of our safety.

I quite possibly could be wrong...but are there not restrictions what the gardai can an cant say in the media and what not? As I said open to contradicition.

If the Gardai feel they are under-resourced then bring it to full media attention, it's not like people wouldn't back them for more manpower. If they don't like getting involved in certain areas (fights etc.) then DON'T DO THE ****ING JOB. I wouldn't want to get involved among a gang fighting each other on O'Connell St on Sat, and so I have never considered becoming a gaurd, if some of these wasters don't want to do likewise then I suggest they do what I did and not go for the job. I can only assume, that like my friends who joined, they joined up for the decent pay and pension that goes with the job, and are trying to blag their way through their work.

dont think there are many gardai afraid to get involved in situations like above. Pay is not great in comparison to private sector. lots of overtime but then thats time used up. Am not saying all them are brilliant. but you seem to think every member of the gardai should be some sort of uber perfect citizen. human beings arent like that. you dont have to look too far round here to see what kinda person a little bit of power turns emotionally underdeveloped individuals into.

[Macy]

There's no doubt that the use of the gardai resources is a major issue. A lot of it is resistance from the representative associations who are keeping their members in cushy jobs, but the Government recruitment embargo/ reduction policy. Clerical, Office and a lot of the Desk Duties should be done by civil Servants not by cops. Everytime there is an issue or statement from them we are reminded on this - what's the need for Press Officer to be a cop who could/should be on the street not dealing with the media?

However, I would have a certain about of jebsus problems with the cops. I've been at enough Dublin Derbies to realise that there's a lot of incompentent cops in this city/ country. My sister in law woke hearing something in the night, opened the bedroom door and heard someone in the house - she phoned 999. 10 minutes later got a telephone call back to check she was alright! She was in the house with an intruder and their reaction wasn't to rush there, it was to wait a while and phone back

The only way to deal with kids hanging around is constant police patrols to make it so they don't feel comfortable hanging around. Even CCTV in these areas (monitered and by civilians). Policing from a patrol car is nonsense.

[Block G Raptor]

ahh nothing like a good old generalisation not backed up with facts. All Civil Servants you say, do you include teachers or nurses in that too or is it just strictly civil servants who work in the Government Depts. Does that also cover the professional grads too or is it just people in the admin grades. Come on be specific and use examples of where all civil servants are in the comfort zone.

When I said all civil servants were in a comfort zone I meant ALL as/in they have a Job for life if they want it and a good pension at the end. I didn't mean to suggest that they are all lazy bathstuds at all just that for those who want to be lazy and get away with it, the civil service seems to be the place you can do it

[Billsthoughts]

He doesnt see the irony in spending all day on foot.ie and then defending himself against accusations of being lazy

Have to say customer service levels in government agencies seems to have improved a lot. I would put them ahead of most private organisations I have dealt with lately.

[NeilMcD]

He doesnt see the irony in spending all day on foot.ie and then defending himself against accusations of being lazy

Have to say customer service levels in government agencies seems to have improved a lot. I would put them ahead of most private organisations I have dealt with lately.

The thing is I am not a civil servant so that point does not make sense.

[mypost]

Just on the point of the lds who've done the deed. They aren't junkies

Scumbags certainly. Junkies, no...

There's nothing you can do about them. They come from a Pats area, Richer is only 10 minutes walk away from the incident spot, and they think nothing about throwing stones at passing Luas trams, banging on the tram windows at the stops, taking rides on the windscreen wipers, etc, etc, all the latest attempt for a "laugh".

ASBO's are the only weapon the state has against them, but in the year since they were introduced, none have been issued. One of the reasons why being the reaction. "Look Deco, look at me ASBO "

[Dodge]

There's nothing you can do about them. They come from a Pats area, Richer is only 10 minutes walk away from the incident spot, and they think nothing about throwing stones at passing Luas trams, banging on the tram windows at the stops, taking rides on the windscreen wipers, etc, etc, all the latest attempt for a "laugh".

Think your tone is a bit out of place on a thread about two lads who were murdered

[superfrank]

One thing I want to know is was this attack racially motivated or otherwise?

A lot of the media attention focuses on the fact that the two dead were Polish.

[mypost]

Think your tone is a bit out of place on a thread about two lads who were murdered

The point being that attacking people with screwdrivers wouldn't be OB to them.

[pete]

It is too easy to make excuses for these murderers. To suggest them some from socially disadvantaged area is an insult to the majority of normal people from that area.

They serve no purpose & most likely cannot be reformed. There is a point where imprisonment has to be punishment. Locking them up in jail just costs money so how about chain-gangs of hardened criminals & get them to clean the roads or something? Would be interesting to know how effective programmes like that in other countries.

[pete]

Moderator: Any chance this thread could be kept on topic? Feel free to start another thread on the Gardai if you like

[bennocelt]

Better policing solves this problem to an extent, have more visual Gardai in the areas that need it most. Sadly the Gardai are the most inept shower of wasters I've ever seen or heard about, seriously I can't think of a police force that are as ineffective as our lot.


Honestly though, all jokes aside, I don't think I've ever encountered filth like I see in Dublin city centre on a daily basis. I was talking about this with an Aussie who was nearing the end of his trip around the world and he brought up the point that out of all the scum he has seen and encountered in his trip there seems to be something extra to the Dublin scum. Personally I can't stand even standing beside them, they are so filthy, look so diseased and talk in the most horrible accent I've ever encountered. I remember when I was living in the Coombe two years ago too, and I know a lot of junkies are up around that area due to the clinic, but there just seemed to be a more dangerous look in their eyes then the scum I've encountered in Cork, Limerick, London etc. A more desperate, I'll kill you for a fiver, sort of air about them. Normally I'd talk about trying to intigrate people like this back into society, but I really don't see any hope for people like that

I agree with a good few of your points here.
This story has depressed me no end. What kind of scumbags are walking the streets, and their parents are no better.
Funny how this story has been reported. Took ages for it to appear on the news on TV. And now it has turned into a "ireland is really good-feelegood story", ie irish people sending money and attending memorials. My ar se, we have to realise in ireland that yes we have racist scumbags and we are not as great a nation as we think.

The Guards are doing a hard job, but i feel many couldnt be bothered.
And why i Dublin such a **** hole, god even in the city centre you can meet all sorts of "characters"

But dont worry we will get moral leadership from our esteemed leaders!!

[Dodge]

The point being that attacking people with screwdrivers wouldn't be OB to them.

The point being you can't say that just because somebody is from an area, they're liable to murder somebody with a screwdriver, never mind try to score poxy points about football support