Gascoigne held under mental health act

[ifk101]

Mountain, molehill.

[Denis The Red]

Well, EalingGreen, it's obvious you feel very passionately about the subject. You put a lot of effort and detail into your post, I'm impressed. I don't think I can be as committed to the argument as that. I'm very indifferent in fact by comparison. I will take you up on a couple of points however.
I was responding to another poster who questioned my motives, this has been rectified since by the same author.
How can a guy be so wound up as Gazza was in an FA cup final to do damage when only a year previous he played in a world cup semi final and with the exception of a silly booking, behaved professionally? It sounds like premeditation to me.
As for George Best and Paul McGrath, well yes I would and do have more sympathy for those guys because their behaviour on or off the pitch has been nothing like Gazza's. The only ones they're hurting are really themselves.
Look, I'm not doing cartwheels or throwing parties because of the guy's demise, nor will I be losing any sleep for him either.
Oh and my opnion on Sheryl was my two cents just to lighten the mood, it's irrelevant to the debate.

[osarusan]

Osuaran,
It's (uncharacteristically) out of order of order for you to conflate my post with that of someone else (Gather Round), to make a point that doesn't apply to me.
If you re-read my post, you'll see I did not assume anything about DTR's views on Nationality or Club affiliation.

I found it somewhat suspicious that the 2 players you were asking the poster to comment on were both Irish (Northern or Republic) as it seemed to me that the real question was along the lines, "If he were Irish, would you say the same things about him?"

But if it was just a coincidence that they were Irish and Gascoigne is English, then yes, my point would not apply to you.

[EalingGreen]

How can a guy be so wound up as Gazza was in an FA cup final to do damage when only a year previous he played in a world cup semi final and with the exception of a silly booking, behaved professionally? It sounds like premeditation to me.

Gascoigne was notorious for getting wound up before football games - think small child on Christmas Eve times ten. For example, I once spoke to one of the Security staff at Wembley, one of whose responsibilities was the for the dressing rooms. He mentioned how before one England game, Gazza was kicking a ball against the tunnel wall with such force that he had to be dragged away before he hurt someone.
Or the WC Semi you mention. Bobby Robson tells the story of the night before, he realised Gazza wasn't in his room. They searched the entire hotel - no sign.
Eventually they noticed the floodlights were on at the tennis courts and when they got there, Gazza had insisted on challenging TWO Americans (who apparently didn't even know who he was) to a match!
This was after midnight on the eve of the biggest game he would ever play...
And in any case, don't you remember the Semi itself where, after Gazza was booked, Lineker looked to the bench, put his finger to his temple and mouthed: "He's lost it"?
I'm not making excuses, merely pointing out that the unmatched motivation which made him such a great player also boiled over on occasion, which is the opposite of premeditation imo.
Besides, can you cite even one other example of Gazza attempting to "do" an opponent? I saw him play dozens of times for Spurs and honestly cannot, despite his frequently getting kicked from pillar to post.

As for George Best and Paul McGrath, well yes I would and do have more sympathy for those guys because their behaviour on or off the pitch has been nothing like Gazza's. The only ones they're hurting are really themselves.

I can't pretend to know too much about McGrath (though I gather he has owned up to some pretty scandalous behaviour of his own when under the influence).
George Best is another matter, however. For example, both his former wives have alleged he abused them; he certainly left them penniless and in dire need, whilst he was nowhere to be found. By his own admission, he neglected his son. It is thought he had at least two children whom he never contacted or acknowledged. He spent 3 months in prison for drink-driving, assaulting a cop and jumping bail. He was later done for drink-driving again. He accepted a liver transplant which might have benefited another, then drunk himself to death within a couple of years anyway.
And as a player, he was notorious for failing even to turn up for matches, before effectively retiring from the game entirely at the age of 27, to devote himself to drinking, gambling and shagging etc (though we all need a hobby to pass the time, I suppose)

Yet for all that, I wouldn't judge him, since I have never been in his shoes, with all the fame, adulation, money and hangers-on etc. Above all, I have no idea what it is to be an alcoholic, nor can I claim I would have coped any better had I been in his position.

And imo the same applies to Gascoigne, except that he has the added burden of being mentally ill.

But I'll tell you one thing; if I had to choose between his company for an evening, or that of those who rush to judge and condemn him from a position of uninformed moral superiority, I think I'd take my chance with Gascoigne, headcase and all!

[EalingGreen]

I found it somewhat suspicious that the 2 players you were asking the poster to comment on were both Irish (Northern or Republic) as it seemed to me that the real question was along the lines, "If he were Irish, would you say the same things about him?"

But if it was just a coincidence that they were Irish and Gascoigne is English, then yes, my point would not apply to you.

I assure you it was coincidence, though hardly a surprising one, if you think about it. For I am Irish, this is an Irish football message board and Best and McGrath were two of the greatest players, as well as two of the greatest hellraisers, Irish football has ever seen. I imagine this is why those two came first to mind.
In any case, I assumed that DTR would be more familiar with them than other (non-Irish) examples I might have named, like Stan Bowles, Frank Worthington or Stan Colleymore (though his later reply indicates he knows little of Best, at any rate).

[Denis The Red]

I can't pretend to know too much about McGrath (though I gather he has owned up to some pretty scandalous behaviour of his own when under the influence).
George Best is another matter, however. For example, both his former wives have alleged he abused them; he certainly left them penniless and in dire need, whilst he was nowhere to be found. By his own admission, he neglected his son. It is thought he had at least two children whom he never contacted or acknowledged. He spent 3 months in prison for drink-driving, assaulting a cop and jumping bail. He was later done for drink-driving again. He accepted a liver transplant which might have benefited another, then drunk himself to death within a couple of years anyway.
And as a player, he was notorious for failing even to turn up for matches, before effectively retiring from the game entirely at the age of 27, to devote himself to drinking, gambling and shagging etc (though we all need a hobby to pass the time, I suppose)

This is where I leave it, last word to you EalingGreen after this if you wish.
I think I may have touched a nerve.
But nail on the head with what you said, all done under the influence. I'd never condone any of the antics of the two you mentioned but my point being, that they both had problems with drink and they deserve some degree of sympathy, Gascoigne however wasn't always liquered up when he acted like a toe-rag. There's the difference.
And yes I'm very familiar with all you said about George and more besides. I don't like much of it and would agree with the fact that the liver he got should have gone to a more deserving recipient, but as the guy died from his failings anyway I find it all a little sad.
As for my moral high ground, I'm not an alcoholic either, but I've seen the effects of it first hand and it ain't pleasant (no sympathy required), so I don't get any pleasure of seeing Gascoigne destroy himself, I just don't see why I should care.

[Armando]

And in any case, don't you remember the Semi itself where, after Gazza was booked, Lineker looked to the bench, put his finger to his temple and mouthed: "He's lost it"?

Not that it really matters...but Linekars exact words to the bench were "Have a word with him"

...anyway good points made lads I enjoyed reading them.

I actually met Gazza back in the summer of '91. I was 12 at the time and we were on our way back through England after holidaying in France. We were staying in a Swallow Hotel in Bisham Abbey and when we went to use the swimming pool Gazza was in the changing room with a friend of his Joe Allen....both Billy Bollock naked!! It was some way to meet one of your idols

Turns out he was using the pool as part of his rehab. Such a nice guy, he realised we recognised him and weren't going to leave the pool until he did, so when he did his half hour or so he chatted with us. Jesus, I'll never forget the scar on his knee, it just looked so gruesome! He ended up challenging all 4 of us to a one on one race the length of the pool and he could only lie on his back and use his legs...of course he won all 4 races. It's a great memory. It saddens me how tough he finds it...just to function basically. Seems fame was the last thing he needed.


EDIT: Eerily, I just flicked on to Setanta Sports News now and first thing I hear is that Gascoigne will be on at 5.00 and will be answering viewers questions.

[NeilMcD]

Not that it really matters...but Linekars exact words to the bench were "Have a word with him"

...anyway good points made lads I enjoyed reading them.

I actually met Gazza back in the summer of '91. I was 12 at the time and we were on our way back through England after holidaying in France. We were staying in a Swallow Hotel in Bisham Abbey and when we went to use the swimming pool Gazza was in the changing room with a friend of his Joe Allen....both Billy Bollock naked!! It was some way to meet one of your idols

Turns out he was using the pool as part of his rehab. Such a nice guy, he realised we recognised him and weren't going to leave the pool until he did, so when he did his half hour or so he chatted with us. Jesus, I'll never forget the scar on his knee, it just looked so gruesome! He ended up challenging all 4 of us to a one on one race the length of the pool and he could only lie on his back and use his legs...of course he won all 4 races. It's a great memory. It saddens me how tough he finds it...just to function basically. Seems fame was the last thing he needed.


EDIT: Eerily, I just flicked on to Setanta Sports News now and first thing I hear is that Gascoigne will be on at 5.00 and will be answering viewers questions.

Its amazing the wonders modern healthcare in that I had an operation much more serious than Gazzas on my knee and my scars are not half as bad as his. I remember seeing his on TV and it was pretty bad.

[Pike B]

Its amazing the wonders modern healthcare in that I had an operation much more serious than Gazzas on my knee and my scars are not half as bad as his. I remember seeing his on TV and it was pretty bad.

Comparing ourselves to Gazza now.. Your ego knows no limits...

[Sligo Hornet]

Its amazing the wonders modern healthcare in that I had an operation much more serious than Gazzas on my knee and my scars are not half as bad as his. I remember seeing his on TV and it was pretty bad.

Comparing ourselves to Gazza now.. Your ego knows no limits...

He'll be drinking 24 cans a day of Special Brew soon

[Pike B]

Gazza




NeilMcD

[NeilMcD]

Comparing ourselves to Gazza now.. Your ego knows no limits...

I would be more like Brian Clough to be honest. How does comparing a very similar injury to Paul Gascoigne have anything to do with my ego. I did not compare my footballing ability. You like to get personal don't you.

[Pike B]

I would be more like Brian Clough to be honest. How does comparing a very similar injury to Paul Gascoigne have anything to do with my ego. I did not compare my footballing ability. You like to get personal don't you.

What do you think of the pic? Good likeness??

[NeilMcD]

It makes me look better to be honest.

[Pike B]

It makes me look better to be honest.

Why Neil, you made me laugh..