Kosovo declares independence

[DaveyCakes]

agreed for the most part but i feel the points i made still stand and that LTID's comments are pretty wide of the mark on historical and moral grounds.

For what its worth, its fascinating how this will develop going ahead. The Canadian government here are reluctant to recognise Kosovo and the reason for this is reumoured to be the potential for the status of Quebec to suddenly become an issue in the country again. We'll wait and see how this impacts the rest of the world (could Serbian antics be responsible for another world war?)

But on the sole issue of Kosovo's declaration i feel it is valid for an ethnic group to be allowed determine how the country, its lands and its people are managed. Are the Kosovars any less worthy of determining their own destiny than the Croats, Slovenes or Bosnians?

Kosovars aren't an ethnic group. If they were, do you not think that they would have been waving some sort of Kosovan flag or symbol as independence was being declared, rather than the Albanian flags that they had, as their design department was modifying an EU flag.....

[Lim till i die]

This:

there is so much wrong with these statements.

Followed by these:

1) Serbia created "Yugoslavia" and tried to promote a culture of interbreeding between Serbs (on one side) and every other nationality there (on the other). The only thing is their treatment of the peoples there only enforced nationalism and pride in ones culture. Whats happening now is no surprise. The "Yugoslav" was a far more manufactured country/nationality than Kosovo ever will be.

2) Serbia stole all that land and the profits from it in the first place and i am delighted to see them get a taste of their own medicine. The way youre talking you make the Serbs sound like victims - HA

Good grief.

Have a read before the next time you attempt to pooh pooh someone with a big pile of pooh of your own.



EDIT: Superb Post by Poor Student. I suggest you start your reading there

[SkStu]

i read Poor Students response and, um, it was long. It might be an excellent post depending on your point of view on the political history of the area. If the culture of each part of Yugoslav union was so cherished and protected by the Serbs then why are there so many Croatians, Macedonians, Bosnians and Slovenes around the world. The Croatians in particular are like the first batch of Irish emigrants in that regard. Political and Economic migrants.

No matter what spin you want to put on it, the union of Slavic states which became Yugoslavia was owned and managed by the Serbs to their benefit and to the detriment of the rest of the countries. Its documented and its fact. (there is no such thing as a previous leaning towards Yugoslavism by Croats and Slovenes-please point me in the right direction if there is)

In my opinion, the actions of Serbia to this announcement is not going to do them any favours. They seem like the bitter actions of a bully trying to hold on to the power they once had than any sort of empathy with Kosovan-Serbs. Why did they attack the Croatian embassy in Belgrade and tear down and burn the Croatian flag? Its a symbolic gesture that speaks volumes of the Serbian intent and mindset. My sympathy for them is non-existent.

[Poor Student]

i read Poor Students response and, um, it was long. It might be an excellent post depending on your point of view on the political history of the area. If the culture of each part of Yugoslav union was so cherished and protected by the Serbs then why are there so many Croatians, Macedonians, Bosnians and Slovenes around the world. The Croatians in particular are like the first batch of Irish emigrants in that regard. Political and Economic migrants.

There's as many Serbian immigrants in Europe, North America and Australia as there are Croats. A lot of Yugoslavs left as economic migrants in the 60s and 70s as Tito supported Yugoslavs working abroad and pumping money back into the country. Sure, a good batch left during the late 80s/90s with the dissolution and eventual civil war but again just as many Serbs left. Again I'll point you to Slovenia. The Slovenian people spread far beyond its current borders making up a large population of regions in Southern Austria (Carinthia and Styria) and a large chunk of Trieste's population. All Slovenian areas that lay outside the Yugoslav state have had Slovenian identity diminished and wiped out yet the small nation survived and has flourished within Yugoslavia's boundaries maintaining its unique langauge (quite distinct from Serbian and Croatian) and its culture.

No matter what spin you want to put on it, the union of Slavic states which became Yugoslavia was owned and managed by the Serbs to their benefit and to the detriment of the rest of the countries. Its documented and its fact. (there is no such thing as a previous leaning towards Yugoslavism by Croats and Slovenes-please point me in the right direction if there is)

Yugoslavia was formed to the benefit of Slovenia and Croatia. The State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs was not internationally recognised and had a chance of being swallowed back up into its larger neighbours in the post WW1 settlement had it not joined with Serbia, one of the victorious powers. Apart from a period of dictatorial madness in the hands of the monarchy from 1929-1939 and under Milosevic Yugoslavia wasn't managed to the benefit of the Serbs. Post WW2 the state was owned and managed to the benefit of Tito, a Croat. Serbia held the federal capital so there was always going to be a natural periphery/centre clash just as development and capital in Ireland is focused on Dublin.

As for no previous leanings towards Southern Slav unity? Are you arrogant enough to simply write that off? Southern Slav unity movements date back to the early 1800s. Slovenia and Croatia were merged as a Napoleonic province and feelings of pan-Southern Slavism carried on from that. In the 1830's there was a strong movement in Croatia which supported unity Serbs, Croats and Slovenian to form at worst a Southern Slav bloc in Austro-Hungary and at best an independent kingdom. I'm not going to get hugely into it here but do some research yourself.

In my opinion, the actions of Serbia to this announcement is not going to do them any favours. They seem like the bitter actions of a bully trying to hold on to the power they once had than any sort of empathy with Kosovan-Serbs. Why did they attack the Croatian embassy in Belgrade and tear down and burn the Croatian flag? Its a symbolic gesture that speaks volumes of the Serbian intent and mindset. My sympathy for them is non-existent.

You've built a fallacious and warped history to justify present views of Serbia, you're obviously going to have very little understanding or sympathy. The Croatian embassy was thrashed as they signalled their intent to recognise Kosovo, the same thing they did to embassies of other countries who did the same, why single them out? Also, every country has its malcontents and cretins, look at our own knuckle draggers who came out to greet the 'Love Ulster' parade. You seem only too happy to castigate the Serbs and misrepresent situations.

[Kingdom]

I've nothing to add to the topic but I did buy a book called History of the Balkans by Mischa Glenny (Sp?). I got about 15% read and was still in the 15th century. I do intend to finish it some day but the book (even the small bit I read) gives an excellent insight into the history of the whole area.

[HarpoJoyce]

I've nothing to add to the topic but I did buy a book called History of the Balkans by Mischa Glenny (Sp?)........... (even the small bit I read) gives an excellent insight into the history of the whole area.

It appears to be a comprehensive book on some of the history of the region. The bother always, is how much bias the author brings to the subject.
This Noel Malcolm book gets alot of distributon
http://www.eason.ie/look/97803304122...y/Noel-Malcolm but is basically a letter to Serbia on how to treat Kosovo which is not really what you want in an historical document.
A sympathic critic of the same book.
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewy5.htm