QuoteAnd you don't think something that's happened in real life by people who know much more about judging players than me (and Crewe would be among he best in England for that) would be counted as realism?
Its not a drogs thing as im well aware that at the moment Zayed is far short of international standard, but to draw thiis conclusion
"Zayed had his chance too - Crewe rejected him. So he's a failure too"
pesamism in my book.
we looked from Montrose to Swords, from swords to Montrose and from Montrose to Swords again but already it was impossible to spot UCDs right winger
And you don't think something that's happened in real life by people who know much more about judging players than me (and Crewe would be among he best in England for that) would be counted as realism?
You're right, and in his case, he would have deserved a call up when in Cork.Originally Posted by GavinZac
I can't agree with this though. You're not honestly suggesting that Behan is anywhere near the same class as Doyle are you?the same as Behan has not been called up.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Doyle was average enough at Cork IMO until a run of form (out shone by O'Callaghan, O'Flynn, Fenn etc.). The second he scored in the Championship he was Ireland material.
Or you could do what people were actually suggesting and give them a chance as subs. No one asked that they go straight inot the first 11.
How about Gamble instead of Darren Potter
Or Mooney instead of Shane Long?
Nope. Still not good enough. Potter out, Gamble in still doesn't add up. There's a reason Gamble dropped as low as non-league football while Potter didn't.
There's a reason Roy O Donovan was sent home as well...does the reason still exist now?
You don't seem to think that players can develop as players while playing in the LOI
There's a reason Shane Long couldn't get his game for City ahead of Roy. Players develop. Just because it may have been true that they werent good enough years ago doesnt mean they arent good enouhg now
Obviously. But you're talking about the exception rather than the rule.
Of course. But an international team is made up of the exceptions.
When are there no more exceptions in the league right now?
I think they simply aren't recognised as exceptions until they move.
Doyle certainly wasn't considered City's best player for the majority of his time here. And the vast majority of City fans would consider a fit John O flynn to be the better player. Yet even if we had a full season this year of a fit John O Flynn he wouldnt get near the national team.
Right now I couldnt say there are very many I would consider for the national team from the league but thats not a reason not to look. This season could see the emergence of the next Doyle, but they shouldnt have to move abroad to get their chance
Exactly, the better Irish players will only choose to stay when they see opportunity is there at International level. Hopefully Trappatoni will be selecting the top LoI players from now on and players further a field than Britain.
No, I'm suggesting that the reason he wasn't called up was because he wasnt signed by an English clubThe point being, both players went on good scoring runs for an eircom league club. One was snatched away in dubious circumstances, the other wasn't. The former was given a call up, the latter wasn't. The defining difference here being that Kevin Doyle was being touted as an international prospect from the day he put pen to paper at Reading, despite having achieved about as much before then as Denis Behan has now.
Actually, at least Denis has some medals
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
They shouldn't have to move abroad to get a chance but the fact is they do, whilst there may be players in the league who might have the potential to play at the highest (higher) levels of the game they're never gonna prove that by playing EL football
You show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser - Vince Lombardi
I reall don't mean to cause offence but if Gamble were potentially a great player, he'd not be still at Cork
Foreign teams spend a fortune on scouting and ever since Doyle was snapped up they've been spending even more of their scouting budgets in Ireland....if there were any potentially great players in the EL they're gone now, Gamble is 26(?) now, his chances are long passed
You show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser - Vince Lombardi
Isn't that point equally applicable to players going on a good run of form in League 1 or League 2 in England and not being called up? The way I see it is that the Premiership and Championship are a standard above the EL and Irish coaches have viewed playing at this level as a prerequisite for an international cap (USA tour notwithstanding). There will of course always be exceptions, and the EL players selected will fall into this category, however I fail to see this as a playing in England versus playing in Ireland argument. IMO, if an Irish player moved from League 1 or 2 to championship, he would then be more likely to get a call-up.
Even the Scottish Premiership is viewed as a lesser league outside the top two, yet where are all the people clamouring for Noel Hunt's inclusion ahead of Clinton Morrisson? At the end of the day, as EL fans, we are viewing things through slightly rose-tinted glasses.
On the what level the League is at question, it's a bit disingenuous to try to lump it into one of the English divisions. The level of football is much more condensed than here - just a function of a greater number of clubs - so the top clubs would be 2 or 3 divisions ahead of the bottom clubs - similar to if you took the Scottish teams - Celtic and Rangers would be good premier sides, Stirling and Morton would be Conference.
Foot.ie's entire existence is predicated on the average idiot's inability to ignore other idiots
Cork City have turned down several offers/enquiries for Gamble. He was snapped up 7 years ago and only returned because of the ITV 'crisis'. In that time he has been far more consistently the best player in the league than all the Doyles, O'Donovans and Daryl Murphys. He has been rewarded with 2 international caps and a B cap. None of his 'cappers' have played him in remotely his correct position: he was played on the right in all cases, and while well able to handle this at B level (declared one of the better performances on the day), didn't take to it in his brief stint on the right in America. Staunton then appeared to tell him to act as a second striker - i'd imagine Staunton has/had never actually seen him play.
While we're telling Charlton and Reading to feck off now, if Joe remains on his current contract, he might be looking to move in June, presumably to England. If he does so, I confidently predict several more caps, perhaps even in his natural position this time. Will that mean he has become a better player? No. Will that mean that the pathetic policy of selecting internationals based on their club allegiance rather than their ability has yet again damaged the League of Ireland? Certainly.
Last edited by GavinZac; 18/02/2008 at 10:24 AM.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
There be the crux of the matter.
If this were to happen and he was rewarded it would be because he has proven he can maintain the high level of performance at a much higher level of football.
It's one thing being the Bee's Knee's against UCD, Bray, Galway etc, quite another doing it in the Championship surely
And when in your (obviously knowledgeable) opinion will there be a time when players who ARE great players actually be playing in this league?
Or more to the point, is it (a) actually the skill/ability of the player that you look at and determine this or (b) is it the scouts shipping players across the water that you rely on to determine this?
Can you judge for yourself or do you rely solely on the geographical basis?
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
How is that relevant?
I thought his comment was dismissive of eircom League players who currently do have the ability to play at international level and i was just curious as to what degree he stood by this position, to what level do LOI players need to reach for him to deem them worthy of an international call up AND still play in this league. What is the benchmark that needs to be reached before that can happen or was his opinion just a sweeping 'that'll never be able to get one while still in this league, never ....... NEVER !!"
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Paddy McCourt, whoops, he's already played for NI.
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