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Thread: Under Trapattoni are we better than 2002?

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    Under Trapattoni are we better than 2002?

    Have a really good feeling about this, really!
    if you compare our squad to the 2002 squad then I'd have to say - the crucial center midfield aside- We're stronger now than we were then. with a manager like Trapattoni we can really go places, now I wonder if any of the lads at the Juve or Milan Academies have Irish Grannies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post
    if you compare our squad to the 2002 squad then I'd have to say - the crucial center midfield aside- We're stronger now than we were then.
    Completely disagree. Of the players still around from 2002, Robbie Keane, Given, Duff, Dunne, only Dunne is playing better now than he was in 2002 for Ireland. Keane and Duff were in much better form then - especially Keane.

    And there's really no comparison of the rest of the team - Gary Kelly vs Stephen Kelly = no contest. Gary Kelly was excellent going forward and rock solid at the back. Stephen has no positional sense.

    Staunton, Breen, Cunningham and Dunne vs Dunne, O'Shea, McShane and ??? = no contest. After a bit of bedding in, Staunton turned into a wonderful reader of the game at centre half and formed a formidable partnership with Breen. And with Cunningham and Dunne to step in, there can be no comparison with todays Dunne and O'Shea/McShane.

    Finnan, McAteer, S. Reid, Kilbane and Duff at the top of his game were the options on the wings in 2002. An up and coming McGeady, an out of form Duff and Kilbane and Hunt are the options now. I'd choose the 2002 class every time

    And Quinn and Keane were up front for most of the qualifying campaign (I know Duff played up front too). Quinn was the finished article and the partnership with Keane was electric. Doyle and todays out of sorts Keane (for Ireland) just haven't clicked.

    Alot of work to do with the class of 2008

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    Agree the Defence is a little suspect. But think McGeedy,, Hunt, Ireland, A Reid, S Reid
    Doyle, Are Deffo stronger than, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane, McAteer, Harte, Morrison were in the run up to the 2002 qualifiers, whilst I've no doubt that some if not all of the 2002 squad hit great form at the WC they certainly did not look like world beaters in 2000 at the start of the campaign. Roy Keane aside I think Gio will inherit a vastly superior squad than the one McCarthy did


    plus I've also got a feeling that Steve Finnan will come back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post

    plus I've also got a feeling that Steve Finnan will come back
    I'd be expecting at least Finnan and Ireland to come back. Finnan will see the potential Trap brings and he'll recognise the proper professional approach that Trap should be bringing. I'm sure he got sick of being messed about by poor, inexperienced managers at anywhere near this level like Kerr and Staunton.
    Finnan will want to come back for a last crack at international football.

    As for Ireland, surely if he has any sense he'll see he has a great, long future at international level with a great manager.

    I'd have my doubts about him prising Andy O' Brien back, his hole retirement was just plain strange Would like to know more there, it's obvious it was down to Stan' exile but the manner in which he conducted himself was bemusing.

    Anyway bring on Trap 9 out of 9 points this year

    But please God not another Bertie Vogts
    San Marino are going to be a handful as the group goes on." - Steve Staunton reacts to performance against San Marino.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post
    Agree the Defence is a little suspect. But think McGeedy,, Hunt, Ireland, A Reid, S Reid
    Doyle, Are Deffo stronger than, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane, McAteer, Harte, Morrison were in the run up to the 2002 qualifiers, whilst I've no doubt that some if not all of the 2002 squad hit great form at the WC they certainly did not look like world beaters in 2000 at the start of the campaign. Roy Keane aside I think Gio will inherit a vastly superior squad than the one McCarthy did


    plus I've also got a feeling that Steve Finnan will come back
    You can't just discount Roy Keane for arguments sake. Thats like saying France would have never won the World Cup in 1998 without Zidane. It's a moot point.

    Anyway, how could say a central midfield with 2 out of Ireland and the two Reids would be superior to Holland and Kinsella? We haven't seen S. Reid play CM with either of them so there's no evidence they'd work as a pair. Ireland has never convinced in CM either while Holland and Kinsella were consistently solid without being spectacular.

    Also, you can't compare Doyle with Morrison as Morrison was only a squad member while Doyle's a starter. Doyle vs Quinn - Quinn was such an intelligent player i don't think there's many that compare to him. Without him, Keane would have never flourished

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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    You can't just discount Roy Keane for arguments sake. Thats like saying France would have never won the World Cup in 1998 without Zidane. It's a moot point.
    I'm not discounting Roy Keane for argument sake, I'm merely saying that other than RK(whom IMO was by far and away the best player of that era and possibly ever)
    the 2008 squad compares favorably to the 2000(when Qualifiers for WC2002 Started) squad

    I disagree with your estimation of Quinn too I think by 2002 Quinn was passed his best and was really only any use at getting into awkward positions and making thing's uncomfortable for the opposition, I think Doyle has the ability to do this and so much more
    Last edited by Block G Raptor; 12/02/2008 at 1:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Completely disagree. Of the players still around from 2002, Robbie Keane, Given, Duff, Dunne, only Dunne is playing better now than he was in 2002 for Ireland. Keane and Duff were in much better form then - especially Keane.

    And there's really no comparison of the rest of the team - Gary Kelly vs Stephen Kelly = no contest. Gary Kelly was excellent going forward and rock solid at the back. Stephen has no positional sense.

    Staunton, Breen, Cunningham and Dunne vs Dunne, O'Shea, McShane and ??? = no contest. After a bit of bedding in, Staunton turned into a wonderful reader of the game at centre half and formed a formidable partnership with Breen. And with Cunningham and Dunne to step in, there can be no comparison with todays Dunne and O'Shea/McShane.

    Finnan, McAteer, S. Reid, Kilbane and Duff at the top of his game were the options on the wings in 2002. An up and coming McGeady, an out of form Duff and Kilbane and Hunt are the options now. I'd choose the 2002 class every time

    And Quinn and Keane were up front for most of the qualifying campaign (I know Duff played up front too). Quinn was the finished article and the partnership with Keane was electric. Doyle and todays out of sorts Keane (for Ireland) just haven't clicked.

    Alot of work to do with the class of 2008
    back then we had duff wasted up front with keane. now we have doyle and keane - who will form a good partnership once they have a proper manager. duff has competiton for his left sided place. which we thought would be his for the taking for the next ten years. and we have proper attacting central midfielders (reid and ireland) rather than playing holland and kinsella.
    the defense now is joke though

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    Under Trapattoni are we better than 2002?

    Just wondering what peoples feelings on this are

    IMO we've better quality throughout most of the squad now than when the Qualifiers started back in 2000 on our way to WC2002

    The obvious weaker components are the absence of a replacement for Roy Keane and a defence that looks a bit dodgy at times but, Overall I think Trapattoni will inherit a better squad than what Mick McCarthy started with

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    Traps not even been appointed yet! We really need to rein things in a bit.

    Ceratian areas of todays squad may be stronger than the class of 02 but overall i think 2002 team was far and away a better outfit. You just cant quantify how important the ability and aura of keane was to that team back in '02. I believe even in his absence he was crucial to irelands progression at wc2002.
    Marge: Homer, the plant called. They said if you don't show up tomorrow don't bother showing up on Monday.
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    Trappattoni+Tardelli+Brady=Holy Trinity of Irish Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post
    Agree the Defence is a little suspect. But think McGeedy,, Hunt, Ireland, A Reid, S Reid
    Doyle, Are Deffo stronger than, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane, McAteer, Harte, Morrison were in the run up to the 2002 qualifiers, whilst I've no doubt that some if not all of the 2002 squad hit great form at the WC they certainly did not look like world beaters in 2000 at the start of the campaign. Roy Keane aside I think Gio will inherit a vastly superior squad than the one McCarthy did


    plus I've also got a feeling that Steve Finnan will come back
    And what is this feeling that Finnan will come back based on?
    Finnan isn't coming back so ye might as well get used to it and It also seems doubtful Ireland is coming back.
    As for Ireland 2008>2002 I highly disagree, 2002 was better than 2008 in every position except for Dunne, but the back 4 overall was a lot better in 2002, If Keane can transfer his club form to international form then maybe you could argue 2008 is better than 2002 in 2 positions but I'd still pick the 2002 squad anyday.

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    Whatever about individuals and arguably 2002 team had stronger individuals, in 2002 we had a good team where the sum of the parts were superior to the individuals involved, the same cannot be said about the current crop of players - we havent played together as a well drilled organised team in a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elroy View Post
    we havent played as a well drilled team in a long time.
    I would expect Trapattoni to make that priority no1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post
    Just wondering what peoples feelings on this are

    IMO we've better quality throughout most of the squad now than when the Qualifiers started back in 2000 on our way to WC2002

    The obvious weaker components are the absence of a replacement for Roy Keane and a defence that looks a bit dodgy at times but, Overall I think Trapattoni will inherit a better squad than what Mick McCarthy started with
    Never mind Keane - we haven't even replaced Kinsella properly yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Completely disagree. Of the players still around from 2002, Robbie Keane, Given, Duff, Dunne, only Dunne is playing better now than he was in 2002 for Ireland. Keane and Duff were in much better form then - especially Keane.
    Keane was nowhere near the player he is now 5 years ago. It's all well and good pointing to his international form but there's a reason a top manager is being appointed.

    Kilbane - Holland - Kinsella - Finnan/McAteer

    I think our current full strength midfield is on a different level to that personally. It was a very solid midfield but we've a lot more class now in Reid, Reid, Ireland, McGeady and Duff.

    We're stronger up front.

    Given is Given.

    The defence is weaker now but Richard Dunne is still a lot better than any centre half we had in 2002. Ian Harte had a poor tournament at left back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbo View Post
    And what is this feeling that Finnan will come back based on?.
    the lure of working under a world class manager and getting to 1 more world cup maybe with a chance of really competing at it

    It also seems doubtful Ireland is coming back.
    What the hell are you basing this on?
    Don Givens didn't call him up for Brazil because he expected the Player to contact him to declare his availability. This was Givens being a P***k that's all

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    Quote Originally Posted by eirebhoy View Post
    Keane was nowhere near the player he is now 5 years ago. It's all well and good pointing to his international form but there's a reason a top manager is being appointed.

    Kilbane - Holland - Kinsella - Finnan/McAteer

    I think our current full strength midfield is on a different level to that personally. It was a very solid midfield but we've a lot more class now in Reid, Reid, Ireland, McGeady and Duff.

    We're stronger up front.

    Given is Given.

    The defence is weaker now but Richard Dunne is still a lot better than any centre half we had in 2002. Ian Harte had a poor tournament at left back.
    That midfield only looks stronger on paper.

    Most of our problems over that last 5 years have stemmed from sub-standard performances from midfield.

    Theres undoubted ability there but its not been harnassed, organised or delivered upon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    That midfield only looks stronger on paper.
    That's all we have to go on. For once they're all fit. Let's hope they can stay fit. I don't think there'd be a problem if one of the midfielders is injured though. It's Dunne that is vital.

    btw, have Steven and Andy Reid ever played in the same team?
    Last edited by eirebhoy; 12/02/2008 at 2:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Theres undoubted ability there but its not been harnessed, organised or delivered upon.
    That's what I'm getting at. Does Trapatoni have better raw materials than McCarthy had at the start of the qualifiers? if we do then I reckon Trap can surpass anything achieved by McCarthy or indeed Jack when it comes to harnessing this raw ability

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    Quote Originally Posted by eirebhoy View Post
    btw, have Steven and Andy Reid ever played in the same team?
    Twice, according to soccerscene.ie:
    VS Canada in November of 2003 (Andy Reid's debut): http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/m...ils.php?id=395
    VS Italy in August of 2005: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/m...ils.php?id=413

    In both cases, Andy Reid was a winger, not in central midfield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post
    the lure of working under a world class manager and getting to 1 more world cup maybe with a chance of really competing at it
    If he really was motivated by competing for his country at another WC then why didn't he wait until after the new manager had been announced before retiring? How would he know the next manager would be incompetent or play him out of position? his decision to retire before the new manager was announced to me showed he didn't care who the next manager was

    Quote Originally Posted by Block G Raptor View Post
    What the hell are you basing this on?
    Don Givens didn't call him up for Brazil because he expected the Player to contact him to declare his availability. This was Givens being a P***k that's all
    Its based on more than just a feeling, just look at his history, the Givens situations is just the latest bit of drama in the Stephen Ireland soap opera, if he wanted to play for Ireland then why did Ireland refuse to accept Dunne's offer to contact the FAI on his behalf?

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