Fran Gavin on AIL proposals in Sunday Indo

[sullanefc]

Read what I wrote Mr Parker - not what you want to see....

I wrote that it was the best thing TO HAPPEN to Irish football. It's got nothing to do with the content of Platinum's proposal. It's mere presence has the impact I mentioned - because for the first time the 2 football authorities on this island - both of whom have for years faced immense fan criticism over inertia - have been given a huge boot up the whole and now have competition. As a result, the FAI at least have a new-found interest in doemstic football and are working their balls off for the EL. That wouldn't be happening without the Patinum proposal. That's why it's so important.

steve, I would be behind the AI league, but I think that is unfair on the FAI. They began taking over the league and improving TV deals well before AI league talks started.

[Mr_Parker]

You seem to have a peculiarly awkward capacity to not understand the context in which things are written/said

The question was asked 'are Platinum even being serious about their proposals'. I responded that the fact that they're incurring cost in pursuing them suggests that they are. Whether or not that excites you is between you and the box of Kleenex...

I have a perfect understanding thanks. Given the size of their operation, spending a few thousand on kite flying tells nothing imo nor should it excite.

I don't know tbh - and it's irrelevant anyway. It was Fran Gavin's own personal view on things. As he's involved with running the league at the FAI he has a lot to lose from the Platinum proposals (perhaps the most of any one individual). Hence he will understandably have a very biased view of it all (though he would be smarter to clip his bias from beign so obvious).

My point is, "what proposals" regardless of who's views they are.

As for your suggestion that the Independent has some sort of agenda re the league, and therefore couldn't possible publish anything opposed to it. The Independent doesn't give a fig about Irish football - full stop. Stop seeing ghosts and shadows where there are none.

The Indi has been the paper "breaking" the Platinum AIL story over the last few months. You called it "a one sided newspaper article," maybe my subtilty eluded you but I was pointing to the fact that this article went in someway to redress the balance of output from that paper.

I'm not sure why you're choosing to be so nit-picky about all of this in such a peculiar and weird way. If your opposed to the Platinum/AIL idea - fine. But that shouldn't lead you to make wacky posts.

Again, how can anyone be for or against when we haven't even been told what the bones are let alone seeing any flesh. If you think that is wacky stance to take then there must be a lot of wacky people in the world. I would love to see an AIL in the fullness of time based on what is best for football and its supporters, nothing else.

[Mr_T]

The television money received by Galway United in the 2007 season was €4,000. Don't quote me on that

Oops!!

[passerrby]

does this have the faintist hope of success without the support of either association,I personally think not but could be wrong..does anybody disagree and if so would or could it have uefa support

[neutrino]

You seem to have a peculiarly awkward capacity to not understand the context in which things are written/said

The question was asked 'are Platinum even being serious about their proposals'. I responded that the fact that they're incurring cost in pursuing them suggests that they are. Whether or not that excites you is between you and the box of Kleenex...



I don't know tbh - and it's irrelevant anyway. It was Fran Gavin's own personal view on things. As he's involved with running the league at the FAI he has a lot to lose from the Platinum proposals (perhaps the most of any one individual). Hence he will understandably have a very biased view of it all (though he would be smarter to clip his bias from beign so obvious).

As for your suggestion that the Independent has some sort of agenda re the league, and therefore couldn't possible publish anything opposed to it. The Independent doesn't give a fig about Irish football - full stop. Stop seeing ghosts and shadows where there are none.

I'm not sure why you're choosing to be so nit-picky about all of this in such a peculiar and weird way. If your opposed to the Platinum/AIL idea - fine. But that shouldn't lead you to make wacky posts.

Surely people can express their views here without someone having a go at them ??

[HarpoJoyce]

does this have the faintist hope of success without the support of either association,I personally think not but could be wrong..does anybody disagree and if so would or could it have uefa support

UEFA will follow the lead of the local association(s), unless it is seen that some corruption was involved or oppressive outside influence was placed on the association(s) in making a decision. Or that UEFA just doesn't like the propasals on exclusionary grounds.

The Setanta Cup is the closest we have to a Private competition at the moment. Few more precendents to go in that competition, so football continues to be normalised in Ireland.

These propasals have more to do with the current time period than any long-term management of football on the island. The clubs touted are current aspirates for success, when approxiamately one year ago the likes of Shelbourne or Longford Town would have been mentioned as serious contenders for a new league.

[EalingGreen]

UEFA will follow the lead of the local association(s), unless it is seen that some corruption was involved or oppressive outside influence was placed on the association(s) in making a decision.

Not necessarily, in fact the opposite is more likely. UEFA's big fear is of a breakaway European SuperLeague (e.g. by the G14 etc)*. That is because the clubs involved (i.e. the richest) would, to all effects and purposes, be outside of their control. Moreover, such a League would cut across UEFA's present international boundaries i.e. the National Associations, and as a Member-led organisation, which gets it revenues from international country and club competitions, anything which threatens these is unacceptable to UEFA.

Therefore, UEFA are instinctively hostile to any trans-national Leagues, even in a wee place like Ireland, for fear of setting a precedent.

And UEFA have wielded the stick before now for a similar proposal. Afaik, they greatly restricted the (Scandinavian) Royal League (e.g by requiring a winter season), so that it would not compromise or greatly weaken the domestic Leagues (and Nat.Assocs.) in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. Had the Royal clubs not agreed, then UEFA would have kicked them out, apparently.

Therefore, if the IFA and FAI kick up enough of a stink, then UEFA is likely to row in on their side - especially if it is in order to stand up to a few relatively unimportant clubs in Ireland

* - This was why, for example, they revamped the old European Cup into the Champions League i.e. to head off any breakaway by clubs, by guaranteeing them so many European games per season.

[B]Or that UEFA just doesn't like the propasals on exclusionary grounds.

UEFA doesn't actually much care who is "excluded" or "included" by any League, so long as the local National Association(s) is in charge. For example, they never object to a League cutting down its size (in itself, self-evidently an excusionist move). Indeed, they regularly chastise the Spanish and English Premier Leagues for having "too many" clubs (20), on the basis that it leads to player burn-out.

Tbh, the consent/approval of the FAI and IFA is almost certainly critical to any AIL being sanctioned by UEFA, though such consent/approval in itself might not even be enough for them (imo).

Which leaves the question of whether the breakaway clubs have enough clout to force the FAI and IFA to acquiesce to their plans (as we saw with the English Prem), or whether the FAI/IFA feel strong enough to stare the clubs down and accept FAI/IFA control, to one extent or another.

[dcfcsteve]

Surely people can express their views here without someone having a go at them ??

Indeed they can.

And surely if people keep missing the point of something you can point that out to them...??

[dcfcsteve]

Again, how can anyone be for or against when we haven't even been told what the bones are let alone seeing any flesh. If you think that is wacky stance to take then there must be a lot of wacky people in the world. I would love to see an AIL in the fullness of time based on what is best for football and its supporters, nothing else.

I didn't say I was for or against the Platinum project, and I clearly stated that the details - or lack there-of - of their proposal was irrelevant for the point I was making. Which is that their mere appearance on the scene has clearly rattled the FAI and caused them to up their game. Which is a good thing for the Eircom League - regardless of whether Platinum's plans say the moon is made of cheese and we should all move stadiums there.

My reference to your being wacky was focused on the fact that you just don't seem able to grasp the point I was making - instead being determind to see something different. So I've re-iterated the point above to help clarify it

Please read what someone writes - not what you may want to see instead.

[HarpoJoyce]

EG that was a great post. Its true that UEFA was on the back foot with the clubs in the late 1980's. The danger was not just one break-away league. But that in most parts of Europe their were individuals/ex-pats willing to invest in their local clubs to set up money spinning leagues. The clubs of Istanbul and Athens being simple examples. The very fact Dublin was cited as 'virgin' terrority and was mentioned as a potential venue to host 'Superleague' matches, apart from the Dublin Dons, shows that most areas in Europe had individuals willing to invest in their own regionalised league.
UEFA kept modifying the Champions League, placating the challengers in the primary domestic leagues and now expanding the UEFA Cup to placate many upper mid-table clubs.


G14 group is now disbanded and joining the establishment.
http://www.g14.com/main.php
"Announcement of G-14 General Assembly".
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/k...id=646355.html

"...The European Club Association...will consist of over 100 clubs and include represention from each one of the 53 National Associations...."
http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/648367.pdf

Representation will again be based on the 5-year co-efficient.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/aboutuefa/c.../panel=32.html

That means one club from League of Ireland every two years, I look forward to the debate on chosing that one. (again UEFA co-effiecient comes into it.)

When I mentioned exclusion I meant a barrier to access, rather than just restrictive promotion/relegation. I forgot about UEFA's own decision to expand a dubious summer Betting competition the intertoto cup
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/int...ory/index.html
which it was stated UEFA were initial reluctant to agree to.
",..Rappan Idea.... Despite UEFA's initial reluctance, Thommen (Ernst Thommen, Swit.) was granted permission to launch the tournament - outside the governing's body jurisdiction and the Intertoto Cup kicked off in 1961.

The Intertoto was expanded by UEFA to compensate the leagues at the bottom of the co-efficient ladder whose European Champions qualifier place had been removed.



I wasn't aware of the Royal League existence, now in its second season.
http://www.royalleague.com/news/newsShow.aspx?id=412
It has the foundations of continued longevity with sponsorship from at least 3 TV stations.

But EG was right that conditions were imposed by UEFA and FIFA. However they are not quite how EG expressed them.
http://www.royalleague.com/news/newsShow.aspx?id=385
"The conditions given from FIFA and UEFA were – as was the case from the first temporary permission given last year - that the Royal League kick offs must not clash with the games in the UEFA Champions League. Further more the Royal League shall not replace the national football tournaments for qualification for the two club tournaments of UEFA.

[passerrby]

I don't know tbh - and it's irrelevant anyway. It was Fran Gavin's own personal view on things. As he's involved with running the league at the FAI he has a lot to lose from the Platinum proposals (perhaps the most of any one individual). Hence he will understandably have a very biased view of it all (though he would be smarter to clip his bias from beign so obvious).

.

silly to say that the league director was just giving his own personal views surly he speaks on behalf of the fai on league issues.and as platinum one plans to sideline him is it not obivios why he would be againist it.

[dcfcsteve]

silly to say that the league director was just giving his own personal views surly he speaks on behalf of the fai on league issues.and as platinum one plans to sideline him is it not obivios why he would be againist it.

I said it was Fran Gavin's personal view, to differentiate it from the views of the Independent - as Mr Parker is suggesting the Indo has some sort of agenda on the AIL.

This thread must surely have beaten the world 'taking things out of context' record by now....

[passerrby]

I don't know tbh - and it's irrelevant anyway. It was Fran Gavin's own personal view on things. As he's involved with running the league at the FAI he has a lot to lose from the Platinum proposals (perhaps the most of any one individual). Hence he will understandably have a very biased view of it all (though he would be smarter to clip his bias from beign so obvious).
.

sorry but i assumed you were saying that it was just the personal view of a lone sniper when it is in fact an fai statement.

[fbtn]

These propasals have more to do with the current time period than any long-term management of football on the island. The clubs touted are current aspirates for success, when approxiamately one year ago the likes of Shelbourne or Longford Town would have been mentioned as serious contenders for a new league.

Exactly. A major concern of mine as well.

I didn't say I was for or against the Platinum project, and I clearly stated that the details - or lack there-of - of their proposal was irrelevant for the point I was making.

How can you say that you are neither for nor against it when you've already stated that it was the best thing to happen the League of Ireland!

Were you stating fact or your opinion then in that case?

If it is your opinion, and you give it such an accolade then surely you for it?

For someone championing it so vehemently in this thread, I find that as 'wacky' a comment as you'll come across in a debate.


*awaits thesis like response on how I read your posts out of context

[dcfcsteve]

How can you say that you are neither for nor against it when you've already stated that it was the best thing to happen the League of Ireland!

*wooossshh*

Good to see Foot.ie's world record for taking things out of context in a single thread has a new contributory member.

[Bald Student]

I feel like I should admit that I don't understand what Steve's saying either. Maybe we could form some type of support group?

[dcfcsteve]

I feel like I should admit that I don't understand what Steve's saying either. Maybe we could form some type of support group?

Honestly - it feels like I'm having to run some sort of remedial group here....

I said that Platinum was the best thing to happen to Irish football since promotion/relegation. NOT because of the CONTENT of any Platinum proposal. And whethr or not I agree with Platinum's plans is irrelevant.

It is the mnost important thing to happen to Irish football purely and simply because - for the first time ever - something has put the fear of God into both Assciations on this island, and given them a sense of urgency to address the issues affecting our league.

The actual content of Platinum's proposals (or lack of) and my own personal view on them are therefore irrelevant. Platinum could be suggesting we have a league containing teams comprising entirely of one-legged dwarfs, playing every game in a different European town/city rotated in alphabetical order. That wouldn't matter. The mere presence of a competitive organisation directly courting our bigger clubs is proving sufficient for both Associations to get their fingers out of their arse. Even if Platinum's plans come to nought, they will have had a big impact on Irish football by reminding the blazers that if they don't pay it attention, someone else will.

If you can't get this then try banging your head against a wall. Cuz I'm fcuked if I'm gonna waste any more time dealing with the 'Midvale School for the Gifteds' on here on this....

[passerrby]

Honestly -
. Platinum could be suggesting we have a league containing teams comprising entirely of one-legged dwarfs, playing every game in a different European town/city rotated in alphabetical order.

that proves our point that platinum one proposals are daft .. dwarfs indeed. plus which alphabet would we use the irish or northern irish and most of our clubs dont play in cities so that would be a none runner.

[Mr_T]

that proves our point that platinum one proposals are daft .. dwarfs indeed. plus which alphabet would we use the irish or northern irish and most of our clubs dont play in cities so that would be a none runner.

LOL. dcfcsteve's head just exploded...........

[Mr A]

Quoting from another thread as the subject is relevant to here:

Yet another example of their attitude towards the league prior to Platinum and their new-found enthusiasm.

Steve- don't you accept that the FAI interest in the league has shown marked improvement before there was any word of an AIL? For example prizemoney and TV coverage have hugely improved. To retrospectively attribute this to the AIL proposals seems disingenuous.