AIL Update

[Mr A]

I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.

And St Pats obviously.........

[WoodquayBoy]

allowing a club into the bottom rung of the LoI is not the same as putting a club in the top division of the AIL/LoI.

Why is it not the same, because it involves your precious Limerick and so to think otherwise would hold you up as a hypocrite? It doesn't matter what level of rung you lot were shoveled in at, there was no open competition for the slot, no invites offered, one struggling joke of an entity in the 'sports capital of Ireland' (snort) was brought in to replace another - a club with no football pedigree was sudenly catapulted onto the national scene.
Look, you think one thing, I think the other, neither of us are going to change our minds, so we'll leave it at that

[jebus]

Why is it not the same, because it involves your precious Limerick and so to think otherwise would hold you up as a hypocrite? It doesn't matter what level of rung you lot were shoveled in at, there was no open competition for the slot, no invites offered, one struggling joke of an entity in the 'sports capital of Ireland' (snort) was brought in to replace another - a club with no football pedigree was sudenly catapulted onto the national scene.
Look, you think one thing, I think the other, neither of us are going to change our minds, so we'll leave it at that

Galway boy gets offended, big surprise, even when I'm holding Limerick to the same standards as Galway you lot just can't leave it go can you. If you can't see what the difference is between allowing a club in at the bottom, as opposed to fast-tracking them to the top then there's no hope for you in society in general to be honest, cause that's just plain idiocy.

I've no problem with franchises in cork or limerick or wexford as we need the country covered. I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.

But at what point will that stop? Say the AIL decide Cork City FC aren't all that they can be as a football club, would it be just for them to throw Cork City FC out of the league and replace them with Cork Rovers FC (say)? What about if they decide Bohs and Rovers would be better served as one entity to push the AIL forward in Europe and they tell both clubs to merge or be kicked out and replaced with Bohemian Rovers? What if Linfield were getting the biggest attendences in the AIL but had a bad year and were relegated, would the AIL decide that they don't want Cobh Ramblers (say) taking their place as they don't bring as much to the table as Linfield and so deny Cobh their promotion?

[WoodquayBoy]

Why get personal?
You say there is a difference I say there are similarities

[jebus]

Why get personal?
You say there is a difference I say there are similarities

Sorry I mistook your last post as something other than the usual drivel Galway fans shovel around here when I'm involved in a thread. I didn't realise calling me a hypocrite and insulting my club wasn't personal. I still think if you can't see the difference between Limerick 37 being granted an open spot in the bottom division of the LoI, and Limerick 37 being jumped ahead of established clubs to the top division of an AIL then you're a moron.

For the record, the FAI did invite applicants for the two open positions going into last season's First Division. Given that Mervue and the rest of the newcomers in A Championship weren't deemed suitable for a First Division licence this time around I fail to see how they could have been last year. So the FAI must have decided that since the two most suitable applicants for the First Division were the two who achieved the licence then they should be put in the First Division, make any more sense now?

[WoodquayBoy]

Sorry I mistook your last post as something other than the usual drivel Galway fans shovel around here when I'm involved in a thread . . . .

Apology accepted, now lets move on

[Dodge]

But at what point will that stop? Say the AIL decide Cork City FC aren't all that they can be as a football club, would it be just for them to throw Cork City FC out of the league and replace them with Cork Rovers FC (say)? What about if they decide Bohs and Rovers would be better served as one entity to push the AIL forward in Europe and they tell both clubs to merge or be kicked out and replaced with Bohemian Rovers? What if Linfield were getting the biggest attendences in the AIL but had a bad year and were relegated, would the AIL decide that they don't want Cobh Ramblers (say) taking their place as they don't bring as much to the table as Linfield and so deny Cobh their promotion?

What would make you think that this could happen? And what would make you think it couldn't happen in the current set up? Dublin city weren't elected into the league, they just assumed a place (new club etc). Limerick's old club got shafted out and replaced by L37. Galway promoted on the strength of a DVD? Even the bizarre splitting of the old NI one league system was a joke.

You're thinking the AIL can't be better than the current system, I'm thinking it can't be any worse.

[passerrby]

You're thinking the AIL can't be better than the current system, I'm thinking it can't be any worse.

in fact it could be much worse however we proberly should hold our fire until we see the final proposal but whats on offer at the moment is pure crap

[EalingGreen]

I've no problem with franchises in cork or limerick or wexford as we need the country covered. I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.

The problem is that Franchising on geographical and/or financial grounds is fundamentally incompatible with Promotion & Relegation.

Let us say Cork or Limerick are included essentially in order to "cover the country", rather than for their footballing prowess. At the end of the first season or two, they will get relegated, to be replaced by better footballing sides, even though the promoted sides may come from a region already well served.

For example, for the opening season of the AIL, franchising might restrict Belfast to two clubs - let's say Linfield and Cliftonville (presently 1st and 2nd in NI). But the following season Glentoran (presently 3rd in NI) could very well get promoted from the (old) IL. Would they be denied their place, since the AIL League organisers might not want a 3rd Belfast side to replace e.g. Galway (the only Connacht team?)

In the end, you've got to accept that football is relatively more popular and successful in some towns/areas (e.g. Derry), and relatively less popular/successful in others (e.g. Limerick, even Cork).

Or at another level, if there were, say, 5 franchise places for Dublin and Belfast combined, I guess you'd have to split this 3-2 to Dublin.

However (and without meaning to be controversial), if you take a long term view, you could argue that Belfast is/was traditionally the 'soccer capital' of Ireland, not Dublin. Therefore, any artificial, non-footballing constraints imposed by franchising could serve only to suppress the "natural order" of things, such that a 3rd, underperforming Dublin side might be preserved at the expense of a 3rd, overperforming Belfast side.

As Mr. Spock might say, "It's football Jim, but not as we know it!"

[jebus]

You're thinking the AIL can't be better than the current system, I'm thinking it can't be any worse.

In fairness the FAI have been in charge for one year, and bar the initial licensing fiasco I don't think they have made many mistakes. It was wrong of them to take out Limerick FC to get at Danny Drew, but to be honest Danny offered Limerick 37 the name of Limerick FC (for a fee of course), but the people who were then in charge of L37 thought it best to move away from the negativity surrounding LFC.

Besides that though they have negotiated this TV deal with RTE, which is a big advance for the league, and more importantly, are a completely independent organisation in charge, one who will try and best serve the league's needs. I fail to see how putting a profit driven buisness in charge of the league, it's clubs and their futures can be anything other than a step back

[sadloserkid]

Who else applied to replace Limerick FC at the time that they were replaced by Limerick 37? Nobody. It's not comparable to the current prospect of Limerick being invited to join the other nine 'top' teams in the proposed AIL ahead of Cobh, Harps, Sligo, Bray, UCD and whoever else.

I am somewhat of an oddity amongst my fellows because I think that Limerick 37 are a new and seperate club but even I recognise that many of the personel both on and off the pitch and virtually all of the fan base crossed over. The whole episode was basically an underhanded stunt by the FAI to squeeze out Danny Drew. Even at the time most Limerick fans, while glad to see the back of Drew, recognised and highlighted the underhandedness of this.

Likewise my disgust at Galway's 'promotion' a couple of seasons back had nothing to do with the club involved and everything to do with the fact that I utterly opposed to promotions being decided by off the field criteria. If this makes me a bad person then so be it. This is why (and Jebus and whoever else) are quite appalled at the prospect of L37 being invited to skip up a couple of rungs on the ladder and take our place at the top table. I don't believe it is comparable to L37's origins. That club took a place that was vacant and that nobody else had shown any inclination to fill. There was also a clear link between that club and the one it was replacing (in the same manner of Fiorentina's current guise amonngst others).

Apologies if this appears to be massively off-topic. As far as the AIL setup currently proposed goes it was best summed up below with the reference to canals (and if it was to be beheaded and left in an Ireland shirt I'd have few complaints).

[Dodge]

In fairness the FAI have been in charge for one year, and bar the initial licensing fiasco I don't think they have made many mistakes.

You mean the merger in 1993 never happened? You mean the LOI president hasn't always been based at 80 merrion sq?

are a completely independent organisation in charge, one who will try and best serve the league's needs.

WOW, thats naivity on the highest scale

I fail to see how putting a profit driven buisness in charge of the league, it's clubs and their futures can be anything other than a step back

So professionals running the league is bad? Platinum have been succesful in every area they've entered. They have people with solid LOI connection amongst them. Until we see exactly what they have to offer, I see no reason to doubt them. And "leaked" press stories don't count

ealingGreen, franchises have existed in our league for years. The current Cork, Limerick, wexford and sporting fingal team are all franchises, in real terms.

[osarusan]

So professionals running the league is bad?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument

Nobody said professionals running the league is bad. But I'd rather professionals out to improve the league than professional money-makers.

[Dodge]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument

Nobody said professionals running the league is bad. But I'd rather professionals out to improve the league than professional money-makers.

I'd prefer succesful people in the business of sport running it than the mixture of "jobs for the boys" and well meaning amateurs that are currently running it.

[jebus]

You mean the merger in 1993 never happened? You mean the LOI president hasn't always been based at 80 merrion sq?

I'm referring to the FAI taking over the entire setup

WOW, thats naivity on the highest scale

I could say the same about trusting a bunch of buisnessmen to have an interest in anything other than their pockets

So professionals running the league is bad? Platinum have been succesful in every area they've entered. They have people with solid LOI connection amongst them. Until we see exactly what they have to offer, I see no reason to doubt them. And "leaked" press stories don't count

They got off to a bad start by not fully discounting that G6 nonsense, this geographical promotion is another x against their name for me, so I'll leave it til the third strike to completely denounce them. Suffice to say they need to make their plans for the structure of these leagues more clear if they are to garner support for them. With that in mind I would say that they have made a complete balls of introducing this idea to us, and so don't inspire confidence in quite a few

[Lim till i die]

I am somewhat of an oddity amongst my fellows because I think that Limerick 37 are a new and seperate club

Now, now SLK we've talked about this.

As usual, you're nowhere near as odd as you'd like to think

There was also a clear link between that club and the one it was replacing (in the same manner of Fiorentina's current guise amonngst others).

Not to mention our beloved Hellas Verona.