AIL Update

[GavinZac]

(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table. Because otherwise it will not be an All Ireland League. EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.

Eh, no? Why would they care about bloody athlone who might not even make this season, let alone an AIL

[Billy Lord]

An AIL league is not going to work with the current situation in Irish football. Why? Well because

(a) Most of the 'elite' EL clubs are from Dublin
(b) Beyond Linfield, Cliftonville and Glentoran, the IL has jack sh*t to offer
(c) A lot of EL clubs are in a mess and NEED to see out the FAI's 5 year participation agreement including 65% restriction on wages, in order to get their house in order.
(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table. Because otherwise it will not be an All Ireland League. EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.

In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. So they can talk all they like, and present what they want, but it's going nowhere unless the associations back it. And the associations will not back it unless they control it and it includes the likes of the aforementioned clubs above

While I wouldn't agree 100% with what you say, that's a fine post. A well-rolled and spun ball of snot will never become a tasty piece of carrot cake.
If our clubs want the general public to take them seriously they must first take themselves seriously rather than look (yet again) for some vogueish panacea.

[pineapple stu]

A well-rolled and spun ball of snot will never become a tasty piece of carrot cake.

What a delightful phrase!

Wonder did Genesis carry out the research into away fan numbers? I assume they also counted the 21 Bray usually bring to away Dublin games?

[Bald Student]

Wonder did Genesis carry out the research into away fan numbers?

Apparently they read a message on here where someone said UCDD'd brought 15 fans and the FAI said, "Yeah, that sounds about right.".

[osarusan]

EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.

I agree with this point.

(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table.

I disagree with this though. Limerick, at the moment at least, are in no position to be in the top division. We'd be destroyed every week. If and when an AIL is implemented, it should take the top clubs into the top league, regardless of the geographical location.

(My argument though, as always, is that the clubs not included in the top division cannot be just ignored)

In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. And the associations will not back it unless they control it

This is the point that might kill the current version of the AIL stone dead. I can't see anybody investing a lot of money unless they get control of the league, and I can't see either the FAI or IFA giving up control of the league.

[Schumi]

Wonder did Genesis carry out the research into away fan numbers?

Apparently they read a message on here where someone said UCDD'd brought 15 fans and the FAI said, "Yeah, that sounds about right.".

And, after comparing that to the numbers at a recent Cardiff Blues v Ospreys game in Wales in the Magners League, concluded that the Eircom League needs to do whatever the people who commissioned the research said.

[Graemerz]

If there was an All-Ireland league the only teams that would have a good travelling away support would be Linfield and Derry City. Fact!

[holidaysong]

If there was an All-Ireland league the only teams that would have a good travelling away support would be Linfield and Derry City. Fact!

Fact? What about Dundalk FC?

[Spoons]

I doubt very much if Dundalk would even be considered to be honest...

[Louth4sam]

I doubt very much if Dundalk would even be considered to be honest...

Really? Well rumour has it that Dundalk and Rovers were invited to talks as well as the initial six Irish clubs.

[holidaysong]

I doubt very much if Dundalk would even be considered to be honest...

The point is that if Dundalk were in an AIL, I'm sure that we would have "a good travelling away support" as Graemerz put it.

[holidaysong]

Really? Well rumour has it that Dundalk and Rovers were invited to talks as well as the initial six Irish clubs.

Irish Independent - Saturday 29 December 2007

Aside from the original six Eircom League clubs, Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk have been invited into the fold...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-1254523.html

[dcfcsteve]

In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. So they can talk all they like, and present what they want, but it's going nowhere unless the associations back it. And the associations will not back it unless they control it and it includes the likes of the aforementioned clubs above

This is a very myopic view of a 'problem;' that I believe would be completely surmountable.

Firstly - let's not kid ourselves. European football is not all that important to Irish clubs (particularly in the IL). It's become more important in recent years because EL clubs have started doing better - but given the choice between a league where everyone will receive substantially more money than they currently do, with substantially bigger prize-money, TV coverage, league marketing etc, I can't see ANY club who would let that SLIP just to maintain the occasional shot at relative European glory. Even the likes of Cork - run by an investment vehicle - would take the pragmatic view of 'jam today' rather than the possibility of isolated European jam at some unspecificed point in the future

Secondly - it doesn't take a lot of imagination to appreciate that the IFA and FAI cannot exist with any credibility if they have lost control of senior football within their jurisdiction. This has happened to no other football association in the world (England is as close as we've come that I'm aware of). The FAI and IFA would be a laughing stock in world football if they were left with no senior club sunder their control. They cannot prevent clubs going off on their own - their only sanction is the European places (which, as stated above, are not sufficient sanction versus a much richer league). I have no doubt whatsoever that even if both Associations did withdraw European places as a penalty against any new AIL league, that such a situation simply would not last. the Associations would seek to come to some sort of arrangement to regain ostensible control over senior football in their jurisdiction. In fact - withdrawing European places could spell the death-knell for whichever jurisdiction does it. Say, for example, if only the IFA said it would withdraw European places and the FAI didn't. That would then see the AIL Irish league clubs eligible for nomination for the FAI's European places. Hey presto - you now have de-facto a single association for the whole island. Even if both withdrew Euro places, I could see one or other looking to negotiate their way back-in as a means of ensuring they triumphed in the battle for survival between the associations. Once the clubs split form the league, the race is on for survival between the FAI and the IFA. And I'm in no doubt that eitehr would be willign to cut a deal to the exclusioon of the other asocation if they thought that that was the way to guarantee their own long-term survival.

Regardless - I simply cannot see the IFA and FAI merrily existing in isolation from the major senior clubs in the island. Particularly if those clubs were thriving in a new league. Neither organisation wouold tolerate the erosion of its credibility in this way for very long. A solution would be reached, and any withdrawn European places would be returned.

[osarusan]

They cannot prevent clubs going off on their own - their only sanction is the European places (which, as stated above, are not sufficient sanction versus a much richer league).

Stated? It's a fact? "Argued" would be a better word.

Regardless - I simply cannot see the IFA and FAI merrily existing in isolation from the major senior clubs in the island. Particularly if those clubs were thriving in a new league. Neither organisation would tolerate the erosion of its credibility in this way for very long. A solution would be reached, and any withdrawn European places would be returned.

I wouldn't be as confident as you that the FAI or IFA would cave in before the clubs would, because I don't agree that they have more to lose. The idea of an AIL without European places thriving in isolation, to the point where both former governing bodies are cutting each other's throats to get involved is quite fanciful, if you ask me.

[A face]

I wouldn't be as confident as you that the FAI or IFA would cave in before the clubs would, because I don't agree that they have more to lose. The idea of an AIL without European places thriving in isolation, to the point where both former governing bodies are cutting each other's throats to get involved is quite fanciful, if you ask me.

I would be, granted it might take a few years but it would happen, there isn't a way that it couldn't happen if the AIL goes ahead.

This is on the understanding that either/both associations would want to progress and advance in the future. Its far easier to do it by siding with the clubs (if thats how you want to phrase it) than going it alone either as separate entities or as one unified association. Does anyone think that all this will go unnoticed by UEFA, that there will be no pressure on the associations to prevent a stand off/divide, that it will just be status quo, carry on as normal with no senior football under their jurisdiction. Come off it

The AIL is all the suppressed and deflected pushes that is now a shove whether they like it or not. No matter what you say, this effort will change Irish Football and its in everybody's interest that all the various parties acknowledge this, especially the stakeholders who feel they will have something to lose by this change unless they act in a timely manner.

You can run from something for miles and miles but if one of your feet is nailed to the ground, you'll still be in the same place, there will be no getting away from this.

[Poor Student]

Does anyone know what happened to the proposed merger between the Swiss and Austrian leagues?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ll/2949493.stm

[GavinZac]

Does anyone know what happened to the proposed merger between the Swiss and Austrian leagues?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ll/2949493.stm

Wasnt it put off because UEFA didnt want leagues merging? Different circumstances here altogether

[Poor Student]

Wasnt it put off because UEFA didnt want leagues merging? Different circumstances here altogether

No idea, I can't find anything about it but that article.

[LeviathanNI]

As I have said before on forums, I believe in order to help Irish football, on the whole, move forward, an AIL, properly administrated, sponsored and supported is the only option... I'm just not as confident as I was that it could happen without UEFA pressurising us to have one National team... and that is something I could never accept, nor my club.
If Dispensation was sought, and given, by UEFA/FIFA, then we could be onto something, but until then, this is all just pie in the sky... sadly.

[GavinZac]

No idea, I can't find anything about it but that article.

Have you tried searching in german?