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Thread: Lisbon Treaty

  1. #1
    Capped Player A face's Avatar
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    Lisbon Treaty

    How will you be voting on the Lisbon Treaty?
    Yes 26 36.62%
    No 30 42.25%
    Undecided 10 14.08%
    Spoil 3 4.23%
    Lazy 2 2.82%

    How did you vote in the Lisbon Treaty?
    Yes 22 43.14%
    No 22 43.14%
    Couldn't Decide 2 3.92%
    Spoiled 0 0%
    Lazy useless good for nothing muppet with no right to complain about anything. 5 9.80%
    http://www.libertas.org/

    Anyone know who these guys are? They are going fund information leaflet on treaty for every household in Ireland for free as the government wont do it. Anyone heard of them before?
    Last edited by dahamsta; 13/06/2008 at 9:53 PM.
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    Seasoned Pro Lionel Ritchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A face View Post
    http://www.libertas.org/

    Anyone know who these guys are? They are going fund information leaflet on treaty for every household in Ireland for free as the government wont do it. Anyone heard of them before?
    Hmmm ...set up by a one time Fianna Fail supporting/donating millionaire .... Well, my experience of those guys is they always want whats best for everyone! No need for me to read on...
    " I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"

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    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A face
    http://www.libertas.org/

    Anyone know who these guys are? Anyone heard of them before?
    They've been around since the treaty was signed, and you'll be hearing more from them, before the referendum. The more, the merrier.

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    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Idiocy.

    Almost as bad as that chap in the echo who intends on voting no "because the government is closing post offices".
    Your Chairperson,
    Gavin
    Membership Advisory Board
    "Ex Bardus , Vicis"

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    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    Unlike in the other 26 EU countries, he has the right to vote "no".

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    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GavinZac View Post
    Idiocy.

    Almost as bad as that chap in the echo who intends on voting no "because the government is closing post offices".

    To be honest i will be voting against it as i always vote against the government

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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    To be honest i will be voting against it as i always vote against the government
    Why don't you read the general points of the treaty, come to realise how important they are for us and for europe in general, and vote on what you were asked rather than making some pathetic uneducated "statement". People like you make a mockery of our right to vote tbh.
    Your Chairperson,
    Gavin
    Membership Advisory Board
    "Ex Bardus , Vicis"

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    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    This re-hashed constitution (that 2 countries already rejected in referendums) is a shambles, and an affront to democracy. The fact that nobody else is allowed to vote on it, is proof enough of that, before you attempt to read it. So it's up to us to vote the correct way.

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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    This re-hashed constitution (that 2 countries already rejected in referendums) is a shambles, and an affront to democracy. The fact that nobody else is allowed to vote on it, is proof enough of that, before you attempt to read it. So it's up to us to vote the correct way.
    Care to give any reason why?
    Your Chairperson,
    Gavin
    Membership Advisory Board
    "Ex Bardus , Vicis"

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    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GavinZac View Post
    Why don't you read the general points of the treaty, come to realise how important they are for us and for europe in general, and vote on what you were asked rather than making some pathetic uneducated "statement". People like you make a mockery of our right to vote tbh.
    God man you honestly think your precious vote means something

  12. #12
    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    God man you honestly think your precious vote means something
    Why wouldn't it mean something?
    Your Chairperson,
    Gavin
    Membership Advisory Board
    "Ex Bardus , Vicis"

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    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GavinZac
    Care to give any reason why?
    You haven't read it, have you?

    I think if people read it with an open mind, and not merely do what the government tells them to do ( "democracy" ), then they will see the treaty for what it is, and will do what the rest of Europe can't do.

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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    You haven't read it, have you?
    I havent flicked through the entire text of the treaty but I wouldn't be voting on something without informing myself first. This is my favourite synopsis so far, from The Economist:
    http://www.economist.com/world/europ...ry_id=10024471

    I think if people read it with an open mind, and not merely do what the government tells them to do ( "democracy" : rolleyes, then they will see the treaty for what it is, and will do what the rest of Europe can't do.
    You still havent given a single reason yet. Have you read it?
    Your Chairperson,
    Gavin
    Membership Advisory Board
    "Ex Bardus , Vicis"

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    Coach Poor Student's Avatar
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    Mypost, aside from the issue of how other states are passing the treaty, could you please articulate your concerns with what parts of the treaty you feel merit voting against it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GavinZac View Post
    I havent flicked through the entire text of the treaty but I wouldn't be voting on something without informing myself first. This is my favourite synopsis so far, from The Economist:
    http://www.economist.com/world/europ...ry_id=10024471
    That's pretty good.

    I haven't read the treaty yet, but the thing that's struck me most from the summaries I've seen has been in the foreign policy. I don't see why the EU is drawing power to itself there.
    Covid-negative, maybe; I haven't checked.

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    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    What I'll be voting no to:
    http://www.caeuc.org/index.php?q=node/8
    TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY

    The ONLY foot.ie user with a type of logic named after them!

    All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.

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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohsPartisan View Post
    What I'll be voting no to:
    http://www.caeuc.org/index.php?q=node/8
    "The EU now has about 150 million people living in regions where unemployment and poverty are much worse than the EU average."
    "Unemployment in eastern Europe has created a huge pool of cheap labour. Some of these workers are used as cheap labour in the west and others work for foreign investors at home."

    So the availability of work in this competitive environment actively fights the unemployment they are complaining about? Someone needs to re-read their arguments.

    "Competition leads to unemployment and poverty"
    "The legal door is now open for cheap labour to undermine existing pay and conditions."

    I'm surprised at you for following this tosh - the "they took our jurrrrrbs" line. Considering what the EU has done for us, is it really such a horror to be subjected to competition from others in the same way as we have provided competition to them? Or is it the case that you, as a socialist, are all for social equality, once it is within national borders? Whereby some people are more deserving of equality than others, depending on their birthplace or their language? Some sort of... national socialism? Besides, of what relevance is this general anti-EU stuff to the treaty at all, given that it is a basic tenet of the purpose of the EU and not a new addition?

    "EU surveys show that Irish consumers already pay 42 per cent more than the EU average for housing, water, electricity, gas and other fuels,
    25 per cent more for education and 24 per cent more for health. More privatisation will hardly ease this situation."

    Right, so we're paying for too much because of the existing monopolies on electricity, gas, water and the over-payment of unskilled labourers in the construction industry... but some how, privitisation/competition will make this worse? Since when does competition lead to higher prices? If competition leads to higher prices, does that negate the "points" made above about poverty/unemployment? Did the person writing this actually think about what they were writing at all?
    Your Chairperson,
    Gavin
    Membership Advisory Board
    "Ex Bardus , Vicis"

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    Quote Originally Posted by A face View Post
    http://www.libertas.org/

    Anyone know who these guys are? They are going fund information leaflet on treaty for every household in Ireland for free as the government wont do it. Anyone heard of them before?
    One of the people involved is Dave Cochran, from politics.ie.

    At this stage I'll be voting no. My policy with EU treaties is that it's up to the yes side to convince me to make a change. Being a good european, thinking what the EU has done for us etc are not enough arguements to convince me I'm afraid. As with Nice 1, the No side are coming up with far better arguements to support of a "No" vote.

    Also, Dermot Ahern's indications last week in the Dail that they're going to try and get around the McKenna judgement to try and buy a yes vote makes me even more suspicious of what's really in it that they want to hide from us.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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