Is there anything in this treaty I should be concerned with, assuming that I don't care what percentage of the vote we have in the various european institutions?
Food security is the next big issue coming down the line - cost of transportation due to fuel costs and world demand/ world environmental changes or incidents. Look at bread going up 33% due in part due to a scarcity of wheat. Rice is likely to follow suit after Burma. We need to start producing and eating our own food again.Originally Posted by pete
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I thought the EU now paid farmers NOT to work?It is a financial incentive for farmers to operate their farms in a more environmetally friendly manner, not to do nothing as was implied.REPS (Rural Environment Protection Scheme), is a Scheme designed to reward Farmers for carrying our their farming activities in an environmentally friendly manner and to bring about environmental improvement on existing farms.
Can we have a poll please pete ?
LTID
So were paying them not to Pollute the rivers with their silage now?
ffs it's tantamount to paying them not to drink and drive or not to hold up a bank. I've known about this REPS scheme for a couple of years as I was involved in a Major IT upgrade for Teagasc that involved installing the software they use to implement the REPS scheme and have always been flaberghasted that we tax payers are footing the bill for this, ffs what other industry gets paid not to break the feckin' Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument
Osarusan I hate it when you use facts to make my arguments look silly
He didn't actually use any facts there. Perhaps this is a joke whooshing over my head.Osarusan I hate it when you use facts to make my arguments look silly
You can't spell failure without FAI
The No camp bleats on about the new voting structure being more democratic etc, but yet fails to see the lack of democracy in the EU repackaging a treaty that was given to the French and Dutch voters who resoundly rejected it. Also the fact that this new treaty will remove any Referendums that Ireland would normally undertake to change its constitution, further errodeing our democratic systems.
If this treaty is primarily about enriching our democratic systems, then give it to the European people to decide upon democratically.
As for the sovereignty question. I was merely stating that there should be no price tag on sacraficing our borders, if we do decide to throw the National boundries to the wind well in my opinion it must only be to the benefit of Ireland, and the Yes camp have yet to give a solid reason on the benefits which Ireland will receive. I am all for the disintegration of National boundaries, but only if it will benefit our people.
This treaty will benefit the powerfull in Europe, it will be far easier for them to pass treatys which will be to the direct benefit of the big nations. Irelands voting power, will translate into Ireland becoming a periphery player. Any laws or initiatives which will benefit Ireland but maybe infringe on the European big players would be impossible to pass, we as a nation would have to hope all laws passed for the benefit of the powerfull would also benefit Ireland, and if they dont well we would be powerless to do anything.
Look at it this way - its akin to a national wage agreement for farmers.
Take for example a sheep farmer - in the late eighties a good price for your sheep was IR£50 a head - now in 2008 a good price is €80. Thats about the same as it was 20 years ago - and they werent making a killing back then either. Also, wool is worthless now compared to back then. Meanwhile, running costs - feed, fertiliser, vets bills etc etc etc have increased as you would expect over 20 years of inflation.
The reason prices (incomes) have remained stagnant is due in part to the common market and european policies, which was why compensation was agreed in the first place. The EU pays about 55% of the REPS payments, our government pays the rest.
In return for this "free money" the farmers have to jump through various hoops, largely based on improving environmental aspects of their work which covers a lot of other topics apart form effluent from silage (which is a rarity since the advent of wrapped bales of silage, which replaced the silage pits which leaked effl....i digress).
So it is not money for nothing, it does actually add to the amount of work a farmer needs to do, and there are financial penalties if criteria are not met.
Furthermore, it is not compulsory, the farmers who typically enter REPS are those that are really struggling, those with very small holdings often in difficult terrain, and older famers (50's 60's 70's) who have done this all their lives and know nothing else. You will not find many dairy farmers in REPS for example, as dairy farmers can still make a living without the hand-outs.
The next set of revised rules for REPS will abolish the use of fertilisers and pesticides - imagine being told you can no longer use your latest Intel pentium processor, you must go back to a 386 on windows 3.1 because its kinder to the environment. No pesitides = crops will be at risk of various diseases from a by-gone era. No fertilisers = cant grow enough grass to make enough hay/silage to keep stock fed over the winter - so reduce stock levels (and reduce futher your measly 1980's income) or buy in hay/silage which will be even more expensive beacuse there is less availbale and more people in need of it.
Sorry for dragging this off-topic (I'm not a farmer by the way).
Poll pete ?
LTID
Back on topic,
theres some Q&A on the following website:
http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm#1
LTID
Ive read most of this thread and can I ask any 'yes' people for the main one or two points ye are making
RIP JOHNNY
Check my nomination of Osarusans post in this months POTM thread. then you'll get the joke
Watched the drivel from Mickey Martin on Primetime last night. To sum up, the usual waffle about how great we've become as a result of membership, and no answers on the real issues as a result of the referendum, which appear to be the strategy of the campaign.If that's how elected representatives do it, what do the rest of the side campaign on?
Mickey Martin posts here??
Will open a new thread with the farming posts above when I get a chance.Sorry for dragging this off-topic (I'm not a farmer by the way).
Poll pete ?
Should the EU subsidise the production of some food but not others? Does it subsidise beef but not vegetables?
Clever ClogsIdeas!
That old chestnut again I see. The definition of "misquoting" in a nutshell.
For the newbies, it relates to a thread where I complained about the blatant, annoying, and sometimes counter-productive time-wasting by players at corner flags at the end of games. I wanted it to be treated the same as other forms of time-wasting, and still do. A yellow card was one of several suggestions put forward, some were practical, others debated.
That was 3 full years ago. Obviously some posters still haven't got over it.
Last edited by mypost; 10/05/2008 at 5:12 AM.
Latest opinion poll has Yes vote up 3% so leading by 10% overall. Still 1/3 of voters undecided & I think can assume a lot of them will not vote.
I predict a very low turn out & Yes to win easily.
Anyone could predict the above, given that the only Lisbon coverage in the media this week, has been various TD's telling us how we should vote. All one way and despite the bullying, threats, and intimidation tactics, the gap has only increased by 3% in a small poll.
When the real rat race starts, I expect that gap to close, as less people are undecided, and the electorate realise exactly what they're voting on.
Last edited by mypost; 11/05/2008 at 1:56 PM.
As usual, no explanation as to why this is "vital."Taoiseach Brian Cowen today unveiled Fianna Fáil’s campaign for a Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum on June 12th.
He insisted ratification of the treaty was vital to allow the EU to meet ongoing challenges.
“To tackle modern forces such as globalisation, climate change and cross-border crime, countries cannot stand alone; and for us this means that we need an EU which has the structures, policies and procedures capable of having an impact,” Mr Cowen said.
“This is what lies at the heart of the Lisbon Reform Treaty and this is why it is important for Ireland and for Europe that it be ratified.”
The People Before Profit Alliance group is launching its campaign for a No vote on Wednesday.
The part in bold gives the game away really, as it confirms that we are neither able nor responsible to decide how to tackle these issues ourselves, further eroding our sovereignty to unaccountable politicians based 600 kilometres away.
Martin was on the Last Word last night and was asked repeatedly to give one benefit to Ireland of the treaty being passed. He couldn't and went down the "Europe has been good for us and this treaty will help it continue to be" route. To be out debated by Mary Lou is some going - and he was thought as a potential leader of FF only a few years ago!
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
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