Lisbon Treaty

[corkboy360]

This is a stupid waste of taxpayers money which should not be wasted right now considering the economic state.

Will ya have a bar a chocolate ?
Reply: NO

Era sure gwan gwan gwan gwan gwan

[mypost]

As a nation we thought we had made it & didn't need that cash any more. I believe the recession will mean more people vote Yes.

There were 200k+ people on the dole last June during the recession. Still the young and working class voted No.

Given the pathetic politicians we have in this country more powers for the EU would be a good thing.

The politicians in Europe are no better. Everyone thinks their politicians are crap. In Iceland there's been riots and a government resigning. In France and Greece, there have been riots. In Hungary 2 years ago, there were mass riots. In UK, the first protests started at the weekend, and that looks like it will get a lot nastier.

I agree. Hopefully some day we might be able to get a transport system and other things as good as our European compatriots.

There is nothing about public transport contained in the treaty. The British ruled us for 800 years, yet most of the state's rail lines that they built are single track only.

Will ya have a bar a chocolate ?
Reply: NO

Era sure gwan gwan gwan gwan gwan

It's funny because it's true.

[pete]

The politicians in Europe are no better. Everyone thinks their politicians are crap. In Iceland there's been riots and a government resigning. In France and Greece, there have been riots. In Hungary 2 years ago, there were mass riots. In UK, the first protests started at the weekend, and that looks like it will get a lot nastier. .

Iceland not part of the EU. The French protest when they are bored. The UK protest is about "British Jobs for British Workers"

Had to laugh at construction worker on Sky News explaining that he had worked home & abroad but wanted to keep UK jobs for UK workers. I wonder whose jobs to "took" when he worked abroad.

[mypost]

The UK protest is about "British Jobs for British Workers"

I can see that escalating into another series of race riots in the UK again over time. Like in France, there is an uneasy truce in relations between the local and immigrant population. It doesn't take a lot for it to become civil unrest.

[mypost]

The IHT focus in on the Presidency issue.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/...r.1-423347.php

Again, the American federal model of "one man, one size fits all" policy is strongly advocated. That doesn't work over here, with citizens different backgrounds, and different identities. That's not what they want. Europe is a continent, not a country, and as such, there is no President along the American lines.

You only have to look at our Presidency in 2004, to see that small countries are perfectly capable of punching their weight and getting things done when it's their responsibility to run the ship for 6 months.

One other thing, Bohlen: The President of Europe is not Vaclav Klaus.

[mypost]

The latest threat on the table here:

The people I've spoken to recently on the issue, have all indicated that they'll vote No again. There's not been a single backer of it. Whenever the Dail call the poll date, the Irish people will confront them again.

[holidaysong]

Well I'll be voting yes again and a lot of people I know will be doing the same.

[mypost]

All coming out of the woodwork with alarmist comparisons:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0215/eulisbon.html

He was speaking in Cork. To put things in perspective, Cork's population is greater than Iceland's.

[pete]

All coming out of the woodwork with alarmist comparisons:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0215/eulisbon.html

He was speaking in Cork. To put things in perspective, Cork's population is greater than Iceland's.

I don't think EU membership on its own protects us but if we were not in the Euro we would be like Iceland - the punt would be worthless.

[OneRedArmy]

Talking to someone this weekend and mentioned the "coincidence" that the two biggest public opponents of the Treaty (Ganley and Ulick MacEvaddy) are also the two people in the country who benefit from huge US military contracts.

This really deserves more media investigation.

[pete]

Talking to someone this weekend and mentioned the "coincidence" that the two biggest public opponents of the Treaty (Ganley and Ulick MacEvaddy) are also the two people in the country who benefit from huge US military contracts.

This really deserves more media investigation.

Prime Time did some digging but no real dirt although Ganley was very defensive.

Irish Times poll shows supporting increasing.

Support is growing for the Lisbon Treaty with a further swing to the Yes camp in recent months as the State’s economic situation deteriorated, according to the Irish Times/TNS mrbi poll.

The poll shows that 51 per cent would now vote Yes, an increase of eight points since the last Irish Times poll in November, with 33 per cent saying they would vote No, a drop of six points

[mypost]

Irish Times poll shows supporting increasing.

There were similiar figures in the government's favour this time last year. Until a comprehensive breakdown on those figures are released, especially location wise, those figures should be viewed with suspicion.

[SMorgan]

The poll figures have to be viewed in light of the fact that the Yes campaign has started with many swipes at the no camp in recent weeks. We've been here before and I'd expect the same outcome again. I also have serious doubts about the accuracy of the poll given that it phased the questions in terms of 'in light of commitments given on.........' The questions gave an impression of concessions that clearly don't exist and would have made a yes response more likely.

We also have the Yes lies that going unchallenged for now. (the No side are anti EU)

These so-called commitments have to be tested in a campaign and i doubt if they will stand up. At the end of the day its will be the exact same treaty, word for word.

[mypost]

I also have serious doubts about the accuracy of the poll given that it phased the questions in terms of 'in light of commitments given on.........' The questions gave an impression of concessions that clearly don't exist and would have made a yes response more likely.

We also have the Yes lies that going unchallenged for now. (the No side are anti EU)

After all these poll results, it's not just here that they're printed, but in most online and print press around the world, from Ireland to India, and they're seen by billions of people. After last year's result, if they think we're a bunch of conned cowards, you couldn't blame them.

All the commitments are meaningless, and have no legal standing regarding this treaty. It's up to us to recognise that and vote accordingly.

[OneRedArmy]

The EU are investigating the feasibility of issuing a bond at EU level (ie German backed) to potentially bail out Ireland and the other PIGS as we are pretty much unable to raise anymore ourselves due to our fiscal situation.

If this plays out as being true, I would expect it to have a significant impact on the Lisbon dynamic. At last we might move on from forced abortions and conscripted kids. It's unfortunate though that it's taken the current dire circumstances to move the debate on.

[pete]

If this plays out as being true, I would expect it to have a significant impact on the Lisbon dynamic. At last we might move on from forced abortions and conscripted kids. It's unfortunate though that it's taken the current dire circumstances to move the debate on.

I know there were other factors but IMO a significant part of rejecting Lisbon was the idea we didn't need the EU money any more. I know we don't get kicked out the EU if we reject Lisbon but losing influence when basically begging for assistance will have an impact.

[Dodge]

After all these poll results, it's not just here that they're printed, but in most online and print press around the world, from Ireland to India, and they're seen by billions of people. After last year's result, if they think we're a bunch of conned cowards, you couldn't blame them

The majority of Irish people don't care, I doubt you'll find anyone in India who cares.

[mypost]

I know there were other factors but IMO a significant part of rejecting Lisbon was the idea we didn't need the EU money any more. I know we don't get kicked out the EU if we reject Lisbon but losing influence when basically begging for assistance will have an impact.

Losing influence means nothing to the average man/woman in the street.

Lisbon is all about power. Voting the other way will merely increase that power to a smaller number of individuals in Brussels to abuse it. The Anglo controversy here, has shown very clearly how badly power can be, and is abused.

[pete]

Losing influence means nothing to the average man/woman in the street.

Ireland never had any power in the EU in voting terms but still our politicians were able to negotiate deals on EU funds. We got significantly more per capita than other poorer countries at the time. EU funds built half our infrastructure which for example can drive Dublin-Cork in 2.5/3 hours as opposed to 5+ hours.

[Den Perry]

Ireland never had any power in the EU in voting terms but still our politicians were able to negotiate deals on EU funds. We got significantly more per capita than other poorer countries at the time. EU funds built half our infrastructure which for example can drive Dublin-Cork in 2.5/3 hours as opposed to 5+ hours.

and whoever is responsible for making it easier for the Cork shower to get to the rest of the country should be ashamed