Sam Allardyce

[Stuttgart88]

Nolan, Campo, Hierro (all centre mids) were all over 6 ft and were the engine room of his teams.

Regardless of whether we adopt a physical or cultured approach it's our "engine room" that's our big failing. In the absence of new players emerging, cracking this conundrum is the biggest task at hand. We can all think of slight moderations in shape and roles for the players but they guy who gets this right consistently is the guy who earns the package on offer.

[Jerry The Saint]

I can exclusively reveal that Don Givens made a written note of the conversation after he got off the phone. His version of events is:


"The conversation on the phone went: 'Hello Big Sam, it's Don Givens. Are you fit to manage Ireland?'

He said: 'To what do I owe the honour of this phone call?'

I said: 'I would like you to come over for an interview tomorrow'

He said: 'Why was I not selected in the original list of 16 candidates?'

I said: 'Big Sam, that was the choice I made.'

He said: 'I should be the number one manager for Ireland, not number 17.'

At that point I said to him: 'Big Sam, do you want to come tomorrow?'

He said 'No' and I said: 'Right Big Sam, good luck' and put the phone down.


That is all I have to say on the Sam Allardyce issue and I don't want it to become a negative force for me and Ray and the other Don. I'd prefer to talk about the managers who are looking forward to being involved."

[Paddy Garcia]

Yeh I'd love to see Reid, Ireland, McGeady, Keane, Duff, Garvan, etc. play to their strengths...

I seem to be repeating myself constantly in this thread. Do keep up.

I really like all those players & have big hopes for McGeady & Garvan, so I am not going to knock them.

Objectively though 2 ply their trade in the second tier of english football, Duffer has been off form/injured etc. for about 2/3 years. Ireland has great technical ability, but he would not have got anywhere near a starting place in past Irish midfields. Keane seems at the top of his game & I can't see any reason why he could not play for Sam.

As far as great technical ability goes, how many of the big four teams in England want our "gifted" players, or indeed the big teams in Europe. A few years ago Irish players ate within the upper echelons of football, now we are scraping around for scraps.

I have not a hope of keeping up.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Nolan, Campo, Hierro (all centre mids) were all over 6 ft and were the engine room of his teams. Our midgets would struggle under Big Sam. If we had big strong men like we did in the past then Big Sam would be perfect but we don't and he isn't allow to buy in players. It doesn't matter now anyway because Big Sam is not interested according to the Irish Times.

Carsley is 5 11, OWen Garvan of those coming through is 6 foot for example. However, I think you're wrong in suggesting that you would need a centre midfield full of 6 footers to be competitive under Allardyce, that's a very blinkered view for me. I doubt the extra inch that Noan has over Carsley would make him more effective...

As for what's in the papers, you can't believe any of that, there's been nothing but speculation if not outright lies coming from journalists and the 3 wise men themselves.

[shakermaker1982]

I doubt the extra inch that Noan has over Carsley would make him more effective...

Throw in the inch and Nolan's non stop box to box running means he is more effective. Different players but the attributes start adding up.

I'd be very surprised if Sam was sniffing around the Irish job - he'll want another PL club after his vacation and if Redknapp heads north then Portsmouth are looking for a new manager. I might be wrong - if the FAI offer him a bundle of cash he might take it but I'd be surprised.

[Stuttgart88]

Regardless of height, we lack presence and mobility. Steven Reid ticks the boxes for me but you can't depend on either his fitness or form.

We don't necessarily need a world-beater - I'd bite your arm off for a Jason Koumas for example. Good footballer but also an athlete. Garvan and JJ O'toole potentially fit this mould. Chris McCann is well spoken of and Gibson looks like he could become a good player.

Darren Potter looked the part in the US and in Denmark but has barely figured for Wolves this season.

Much as I'm excited by Stephen Quinn's ability he's the latest in a long line of talented Irish midgets!

[Kingdom]

I can exclusively reveal that Don Givens made a written note of the conversation after he got off the phone. His version of events is:




That is all I have to say on the Sam Allardyce issue and I don't want it to become a negative force for me and Ray and the other Don. I'd prefer to talk about the managers who are looking forward to being involved."

Nice. Heard it before I think though.....

[geysir]

I´m not at all convinced by the arguments that Allardyce is a one dimensional manager. It´s a case not proven.
Everybody on the planet outside Newcastle could see that it would take a lot of time even to replicate Bolton's achievements there.
Despite the usual absence of long term injured, Givens out for 6 weeks and regular injuries to key players like Emre, Barton in jail and with a cráp team, Newcastle were astonishingly still mid table.

He can't be properly judged on this Newcatle stint, his Bolton record is the one to scrutinise and pound for pound they were top of the league, they were well coached, defensivly sound, motivated and could vary the play. I don't know about the man himself or what the Bolton fans thought of him but he is no Joe Kinnear dupe.

[DotTV]

For anyone who thinks our creative players wouldn't flourish under Big Sam, I have three words: Jay Jay Okocha. The most skilful player the English league has seen for years was allowed to flourish under Sam.It's a nonsense that he's a long ball man.Bolton were able to mix it up with physicality and skill.Nothing wrong with that.
My main concern was his recent failure but newcastle chop managers like lumerbjacks chop trees.

At least this time round the contenders have recent involvement in football.Allardyce, Houllier and McCarthy sound a lot better than Stan, Aldo or Kevin Moran

[eirebhoy]

As far as great technical ability goes, how many of the big four teams in England want our "gifted" players, or indeed the big teams in Europe. A few years ago Irish players ate within the upper echelons of football, now we are scraping around for scraps.

That's quite a few years ago now mate.

Andy Reid is the most gifted passer of a ball we've had in years and years imo.
Duff was regarded as one of our most skillful ever players and McGeady wouldn't be far off.
Stephen Ireland's range of passing is magnificent imo. With the outside of his foot (probably the toughest technique to master) I can't think of a more gifted Irish player.
There's obviously Robbie Keane who wouldn't have a problem linking up with the best players in the world.
Garvan is an excellent passer and is playing quite deep in midfield for Ipswich now, controlling their play. Probably the best football team in the division on their day.
Then there's Jamie McCarthy at Hamilton who should be breaking through in the next couple of years.
McCarthy’s advisor George Gray told the Irish Independent: “Rafa Benitez was very impressed by him. He told me that he regarded James’ technique as better than Steven Gerrard’s was at the same age." (don't ask me how Benitez would know that. Maybe they do some tests)
Glenn Whelan seems to be living up to his potential at last. He's another deep lying playmaker who controls the play.
Darron Gibson again, another playmaker. I think there's a lot more doubt over whether he'll make it than the other young players listed though.
As you know I still rate Stokes highly and he relies heavily on a good passing game to latch onto through balls.

And then, while Carsley, Hunt, Doyle and Stephen Reid would be suited to a system that focuses a lot on the stereotypical British qualities, I don't think they'd have much problems playing a more continental and intelligent style of football.

I should also mention that Richard Dunne has a pass success rate of 79% this season compared to 62% last season so he's obviously keeping it on the ground a lot more under Sven.

Maybe I'm being harsh on Allardyce considering Okocha was once the main man in his team but I'm just giving my reasons why I'd rather a manager that focused more on our passing game. Someone like Brian Kerr with Martin O'Neill or Paul Jewell's motivational skills.

[DotTV]

I really like all those players & have big hopes for McGeady & Garvan, so I am not going to knock them.

Objectively though 2 ply their trade in the second tier of english football, Duffer has been off form/injured etc. for about 2/3 years. Ireland has great technical ability, but he would not have got anywhere near a starting place in past Irish midfields. Keane seems at the top of his game & I can't see any reason why he could not play for Sam.

As far as great technical ability goes, how many of the big four teams in England want our "gifted" players, or indeed the big teams in Europe. A few years ago Irish players ate within the upper echelons of football, now we are scraping around for scraps.
I have not a hope of keeping up.

So what? As someone pointed out on another thread.Poland topped their group with players from the mid leagues and mid teams of Europe. Even the Czechs only have a handful of players with the top teams.

[galwayhoop]

For anyone who thinks our creative players wouldn't flourish under Big Sam, I have three words: Jay Jay Okocha.

thats only two words.... but you cunningly used one of them twice!!!!

[DotTV]

Ha Ha! Nabbed

[irishfan86]

Glenn Whelan seems to be living up to his potential at last. He's another deep lying playmaker who controls the play.

Sorry to be picky here, maybe I saw him on the wrong day a couple of times, but for me this guy is NOT a playmaker.

He is the epitome of British style midfielder. He is athletic, box to box, and loves to drive into the 18 yard box.

He doesn't hold from what I've seen, and did not look to control play.

Again, maybe I caught him a couple of times against superior opposition or something, but when I saw him play he was never looking to pass it sideways or back, he was always looking forward and running forward or hoofing it over the top of the defenders.

Seems to be highly rated though, so I hope he comes good.

[Paddy Garcia]

So what? As someone pointed out on another thread.Poland topped their group with players from the mid leagues and mid teams of Europe. Even the Czechs only have a handful of players with the top teams.

So what? If you look a little further than Poland you might just find some correlation between talented players and success.

[eirebhoy]

Sorry to be picky here, maybe I saw him on the wrong day a couple of times, but for me this guy is NOT a playmaker.

He is the epitome of British style midfielder. He is athletic, box to box, and loves to drive into the 18 yard box.

He doesn't hold from what I've seen, and did not look to control play.

I have to say, I haven't seen him play in ages. For Ireland U21s and whenever I saw him play for Wednesday though he was sitting in midfield spraying the passes around. He certainly wasn't the combative type and sat back way more than he got forward. As I said though I haven't seen him in ages.

So what? If you look a little further than Poland you might just find some correlation between talented players and success.

Call me crazy but I think we could pick a midfield to play better and more effective football than Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard and SWP/Lennon/Cole. I don't think any of those players are capable of controlling the pace of a game. If you want to find an English player that can control the tempo, a proper playmaker, you have to drop the standard by quite a bit and they'd probably be a bit out of their depth playing with those star players.

[Paddy Garcia]

Call me crazy but I think we could pick a midfield to play better football than Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard and SWP/Lennon/Cole. I don't think any of those players are capable of controlling the pace of a game.

I'm by nature very polite.

[eirebhoy]

tbh I think a lot weaker teams than us could outclass that English midfield and have outclassed that English midfield. They've no fulcrum. Paul Scholes is the only top class playmaker they have and he's retired. Lampard and Gerrard are both experts at running into the box but that's about as far as their positional sense stretches. I'd trust 4 Ambrosini's to outpass that midfield and there's no sarcasm there. As I said though, stick Paul Scholes (the new Scholes, the one since Keane left Man Utd ) in and it would make all the difference.

[tetsujin1979]

tbh I think a lot weaker teams than us could outclass that English midfield and have outclassed that English midfield. They've no fulcrum. Paul Scholes is the only top class playmaker they have and he's retired. Lampard and Gerrard are both experts at running into the box but that's about as far as their positional sense stretches. I'd trust 4 Ambrosini's to outpass that midfield and there's no sarcasm there. As I said though, stick Paul Scholes (the new Scholes, the one since Keane left Man Utd ) in and it would make all the difference.

SSShhhhh, Capello could be reading!
Anyway, I reckon he's thick skinned enough to play Barry or Hargreaves behind Gerrard or Lampard and not give a toss what the dropped players or media think about it. That was probably Sven's biggest failing with England, he let the papers pick the team so he wouldn't have to face criticism for dropping one of the golden boys in midfield. But I digress.

Wouldn't fancy Sam as manager. Long balls, talented midfield players, no recognised target man, etc, etc.