QuoteAnyone got a link to it?Originally Posted by Raheny Red
If that is the case it shows how little they know about IL football too!
Anyone got a link to it?
Well said that man.Yes. See where he uses the word "criteria" to describe it (along with the ground capacity)? "The sorts of criteria being mentioned (minimum 5,000 seat stadiums and initial attendances of at least 3,000)" Fairly clear, in my book. Maybe he's misquoted, but I'm happy I'm not reading the quote wrong at least.
You cann't just expect an AIL to solve all our problems, and suddenly lead to 3000 average crowds. You can't just come up with a vision of the future and say "That's where we're going; anyone who disagrees can sod off" You have to realise the league's place in the greater scheme of things and realise that if we haven't made any significant impact on attendances on average in the past ten years or so, we're not suddenly going to add on 50% because of some vague aspiration. Roddy is a dreamer; he has very little connection with the real world, and you need to see where things are in the real world in order to devise a realisable plan going forward.
Translation - this is my view; anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
Maybe it's just a target as opposed to a criterion, but the bit where the Galway official was quoted as saying it's a criterion hints otherwise. That's all we've got to go on for now really, so you can't dismiss people's opinions as nonsense just because you take the fancy to.
The button between reply and quote is a multi quote button, by the way.
Who mentioned that it would solve "all our problems"?
I think thats quite a reasonable expectation. Quite a few different clubs have averaged that over a couple of seasons, its just never been sustainable in the long-term.Of course you can!!! Lots of people come up with visions in every walk of life and do exactly what you say can't be done, ie change the status quo. Most fail, but some succeed. You may not like the way its being done, or the chance of success (I'd tend to agree somewhat with both) but it can be done.Do I? Why? That sounds like something someone in Abbotstown would say.Surely that reinforces the need for change and specifically taking the future out of the hands of those who had a hand in its lack of success to date?I'm not going to get into a critique of Jim Roddy, suffice to say I don't believe you know him well enough to make that assessment. What is fairly well known is that Fintan Drury is no fool, and he's certainly surrounded by enough of them who currently administer domestic football.
Oh wow... One of your more deluded posts ever...
It's the general feeling from pro-AIL people on this thread. Throw a load of money at the league and it'll all get better. You, for example, trot out the old cliche that "the Eircom League has and is unsustainable in its current shape", while noting that "Full-time football has a better chance of being sustainable under an AIL model due to the cash on offer (let's leave aside the permanence of this cashflow)". So, while noting one massive problem with the plan, you believe the AIL will turn around a doomed league (an "unsustainable" one) through a vague combination of "infrastructure, marketing and proper administration". I don't hold to the cliche of "Build it and they willl come" (the old Donnybrook ground disproves that), proper administration won't really change that much and we've had more marketing in the past couple of seasons (CPOs, TV games for example) than ever before and nothing's changed.Who mentioned that it would solve "all our problems"?
The clubs who have gotten over 3000 averages going on the foot.ie figures are Derry (2006) and Cork (2005 and 2004). I don't think that constitutes "Quite a few" by any stretch of the imagination. Only two others have broken 2000 in a season - Galway (2007) and Shels (2004). Sustainability is huge issue, and one you gloss over. The reason the clubs mentioned got high attendances is because they were going for the title (or, in Galway's case, because they gave away loads of season tickets and counted them in their crowds).Quite a few different clubs have averaged that over a couple of seasons, it's just never been sustainable in the long-term.
You'll find the more common way of bringing in radical change is to evaluate it carefully, and show how the change is going to lead to the result. That's classified as "scene missing" so far.Lots of people come up with visions in every walk of life and do exactly what you say can't be done, ie change the status quo. Most fail, but some succeed. You may not like the way its being done, or the chance of success (I'd tend to agree somewhat with both) but it can be done.
Do you absolve the clubs of all blame then? I wouldn't. Not by a long shot.Surely that reinforces the need for change and specifically taking the future out of the hands of those who had a hand in its lack of failure to date?
That sounds like something someone in Abbotstown would say.As to why you have to realise the league's place - it's so you don't make stupid, easily disprovable, assertions such as the one you made on clubs' attendances.Translation - this is my view; anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
I've actually discussed (or rather, listened to him talk non-stop to me) his views on this matter with him. He's a moron when it comes to planning things like this. I'm quite happy in my assessment of him, thank you very much.I'm not going to get into a critique of Jim Roddy, suffice to say I don't believe you know him well enough to make that assessment.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 14/01/2008 at 8:52 PM.
Having met him a couple of times and listened to him at length he did seem to have a lot of ideas and visions which could not be achieved by what he was suggesting.
Where is the "thank you" button?The button between reply and quote is a multi quote button, by the way.
Always thought a Thank You button was kind of a gay idea...
Cheerful? Homoerotic?Always thought a Thank You button was kind of a gay idea...
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
*hunts for "**** You" buttonAlways thought a Thank You button was kind of a gay idea...
Given that you managed to proxy 3 or 4 years of guesstimated attendences into a full history of the League, I think you are as guilty of shaping the past to suit your view of the future as I am.
Many of those figures were official. But are you suggesting that they're out by 50% or so?
How would you back up your claim that "Quite a few different clubs have averaged that over a couple of seasons"?
I specifically didn't say the last couple of seasons.
Waterford, Rovers, Bohs, Shels, Derry, Dundalk and others have all had periods where relatively large crowds attended games over a number of seasons before slipping away for various reasons.
Over 3000 average? Want to show me when? Or do you want to keep making stuff up? (Note - the 50s don't count)
Do you think clubs finishing bottom half in the AIL will maintain this average? Or will they slip away for the "various reasons" you note (main one being Irish people are a crowd of band wagon jumpers who are happy to support their local team if there's a title or Cup on the way)
I'll just get in my time machine......
Are you disputing that certain clubs had attendences over 3,000 in the 70's, 80's & 90's? And I'm the deluded one?!
Different question. I thought an accountant would realise that an average involves a summing up a number of observations and taking the mean. An average attendence of 3,000 across the League is achievable IMO. Obviously there will be dispersion with the top teams averaging more and the bottom sides less, I would imagine.
Oh I see. So now you reckon that, if the bottom clubs are getting 2000, the top clubs will be getting 4000?! Unlikely. In any case, the criterion is for 3000 crowds, which means any team dropping below that may have consequences.
The average eL Premier Division crowd for 2007 was 1500-ish. It won't double just because we bring Linfield in.
I don't think any club has, in the past decade or two, consistently gotten above 3000 averages. I'm still waiting for you to show me any evidence otherwise. Until then, your arguments are pure pie in the sky. At least I've provided some sort of source.
Yes, that would result in an average of 3,000.Right back at ya. This is your interpretation of a statement and is far from fact. Nothing like double standards.......
Quoting opinion as fact yet again......
Off the top of my head, Derry City averaged approx 5,000 in their first decade in the League. You've no basis for disputing this, other than the fact I don't have official attendence figures. Evidence going back that far is going to be anecdotal, so you've asked a question that can't be answered. Clever.
Well done; nothing like pointless sarcasm to completely ignore the point made.
Don't see how it's double standards to understand what words like "criteria" mean.Right back at ya. This is your interpretation of a statement and is far from fact. Nothing like double standards.......
Hmmm...doubling our crowds hasn't happened in the past ten years...I'm going to guess it's not going to happen overnight. Not the most scientific method, but enough to cast doubts on the benefits being mooted of an AIL.Quoting opinion as fact yet again......
Too far back to be relevant now though. Different country, unfortunately. We can watch Premiership football instead of going to the Brandywell. As a good chunk of those people are now doing.Off the top of my head, Derry City averaged approx 5,000 in their first decade in the League. You've no basis for disputing this, other than the fact I don't have official attendence figures.
You've provided no reasons to believe that the AIL will help as much as you suggest. You've provided no basis for suggesting the eL is "unsustainable in its current format". You openly ignore the sustainability of any investment in this new league. Yet you pour scorn on any who suggest that we stop and think about this before going forward? Sorry, that's just nonsense.
You asked me to quote an example since the 60's. I did. Are you sure you're moving the goalposts quick enough?
Cheap shots are a sign you're losing this one.
Thats not what we were talking about. Read back a few pages and you'll find my reasons.
As stated previously, Shels, Cork, Longford....how many examples do you need?I actually think I raised the question about its sustainability myself.The vast majority of what I have read over the length of this thread was very far from "stopping and thinking". It was outright rubbishing each and ever facet of the proposal that was made public, mostly driven by the selective nature of the proposed League. Whilst I'm very open to the idea of the AIL until I hear things I don't like, most of the negative posters have ruled it out based on limited information and self-interest.
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