QuoteTell us how.....Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
The likes of Linfield and Glentoran would not remain part-time,
and would certainly strengthen their teams significantly once the gulf was
apparent, i would say 2-3 seasons and the field would even out for them.
I think the gulf would be massive for the likes of cliftonville though
and would expect them to go the other direction over time.
Tell us how.....
I think OneRedArmy's asking you if this is true or not.........and how you know this information.Tell us how.....
Err...I asked you the question since you have claimed to have an inside track on the negotiations?Tell us how.....
Err...I asked you the question since you have claimed to have an inside track on the negotiations?
I have already stated what was told to the clubs at the meeting and the questions that arose that went unanswered. I have asked previously of those championing the proposal to explain/help/answer how P&R will work. Like an awful lot about this whole proposal there are an awful lot of ifs, buts and maybes. P&R is another one of these.
If you mean people on here, no one knows. The clubs involved in these discussions probably haven't any firm position either. The working of promotion and relegation is a make-or-break issue on whether this league would be viable IMO. A league with minimal relegation will lead to a load of dead matches at the end of the season.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Big piece on this by Emmet Malone in the Times today.
Mentioned some strange things.
A supposed criteria was a stadium with at least 5,000 seats. Another one was average attendance of 3,000.
He also suggested that Linfield are not open to the idea but will only join if everyone else goes.
From his piece I was left feeling very much against the idea. 12 teams, the G8 and 4 others. Sacrificing some European places was an issue and an apparent continuation of cup competitions North and South leads me to believe that this will be a big mess which would do more damage then it's worth.
Imo, the only AIL that would work is one with all league clubs, 22 South and the ones up North involved and some sort of pyramid system because the AIL that Malone described today looks really flawed and unfair.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Can you post the link?
No. It's only available on the Irish Times premium service.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Can anyone post the link?
No, because its only available if you pay for an ireland.com subscription, as superfank said...
Big peice in the star today a reporter went to linfield vs cliftonville gameto gauge reaction, in between linfield fans buring tri colours they were generally for it from a footballing pov but not from a merged national team.
Do linfield fans burn tri colours at SSC games?
kdjac
5-0
Does anyone have an ireland.com subscription?
Alright, forget about the link .... can someone copy and paste the article?
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
We're on the road to God knows where
Sat, Jan 12, 2008
An all-Ireland league may be a lot closer than most people think, Emmet Malone reports:
The question of who succeeds Steve Staunton is likely to be resolved more quickly but the outcome of talks this month between the FAI and IFA on proposals to establish an all-Ireland league, as early as this coming autumn if the proponents are to be believed, seem set to have a more lasting impact on the Irish game.
The two associations have been a little wrong-footed by the initiative which comes not from them but Platinum One chairman Fintan Drury and former Derry City chief executive Jim Roddy. The pair only met for the first time a matter of months ago at a meeting of clubs held at the offices of Arkaga, the investment company that owns Cork City, but having hit it off on the basis of a shared sense of where the game here needs to go, they were, by December, briefing interested parties North and South of the Border of their vision for an all-Ireland winter league.
The scheme remains at the drawing board stage but reactions from clubs, politicians and potential backers from the commercial sector were all sufficiently positive late last year for work to get under way on a far more detailed business plan which is likely to be unveiled over the coming weeks.
Meetings with the two associations have yielded more mixed outcomes. Privately, IFA chief executive Howard Wells is said to be upbeat about the proposal although he was subsequently dismissive of the timeframe being suggested, which does appear highly aspirational. The League of Ireland's executive, meanwhile, gave Roddy and Drury a frosty reception although opinion within the six-strong committee is said to be divided. Several members are reportedly awaiting firmer proposals with open minds although others, like most clubs who have thus far been overlooked, are cool on the idea.
To an extent, reservations on the part of the game's governing bodies are only natural for what is being asked of them. While the organisers of the proposed league are anxious to steer well clear of the issue of a unified national team, they do want them to sign over their leagues' two Champions League places, two Uefa Cup places and two Intertoto Cup places while ceding control of top-flight club football on the island.
The new venture would initially have 12 clubs, nine from the South and three from the North with the likes of Derry City, Drogheda United and Cork City amongst the certainties to feature from the League of Ireland while Glentoran, Portadown and Newry Town are some of the Irish League clubs to have expressed an interest. To date, Linfield have publicly dismissed the idea although privately they have kept close tabs on developments and nobody believes that the club would not want to be left behind in the event that others were taking the leap.
The idea is that those clubs left behind would continue to participate in their respective leagues with the winners North and South playing off against each other to replace the one side relegated each season although quite how the numerical imbalances that might arise would be addressed has not quite been finalised. Separate cup competitions would continue to exist - these would offer the other two Uefa Cup spots - but the associations would have only one representative each on a 10-man board which would include four club representatives, three outside directors and Roddy as chief executive. The pay-off for Platinum One would be a cut of the commercial revenues which they would look to generate while the league would also take a percentage of all gate receipts in order to cover costs and promote the games.
With substantially increased prize funds anticipated and revenues on all other fronts expected to rise too, a majority of the League of Ireland's Premier Division sides have already signalled their desire to play ball, as it were, although nobody was keen this week to speak publicly for fear of upsetting the FAI, through which all public funding of football is channelled.
The Government's enthusiasm, though, could prove a key factor with a spokesman for Séamus Brennan confirming yesterday that, while no formal proposal has come before him, the minister is "very interested in any initiative that would lead to sport being played on an all-island basis".
His northern counterpart declined to comment on the situation but, pointedly, having been so vociferous on the international eligibility row before Christmas, did not come out against the idea. Here, too, it is easy to conclude that there is a desire for all the ducks to be in line before any public stand is taken.
Just about all of the broadcasters are said to have reacted positively and Tim Twomey of Setanta confirmed that the company would "certainly be interested" in the event that such a competition was established. The combination of substantially improved public funding, better television coverage and the large-scale private investment which many believe would accompany such a major breakthrough would, it is widely hoped, set the Irish game on something of an upward spiral.
"From a political point of view there's certainly nothing to prevent it any more," observes Shelbourne manager Dermot Keely who played for Glentoran in the early 80s, a time when such a development would have seemed utterly unthinkable. "But I've got to say the idea still seems crazy to me. People have to take a step back and ask whether the population here is really big enough to support 10 clubs with full-time squads. Now, you can say that I'm one to talk after all that went on at Shelbourne but the fact is I've seen close up how hard it is to do and I don't think that number of clubs could generate upwards of 2 million a year which is the minimum required. And talk of the likes of Portadown and Newry Town doing it is just pie in the sky."
Nial O'Reilly of Galway United believes those sort of numbers are achievable by clubs with a certain population to work off and a well thought-out plan on how to do it - regardless of whether the new league happens or not. "That's our target and we're on course to meet it but the sorts of criteria being mentioned (minimum 5,000 seat stadiums and initial attendances of at least 3,000) are the least we have to be looking at if we are serious of moving things forward regardless of whether there is a new league or not."
For clubs North of the border the requirement that they have a full-time squad would seem pretty onerous as only Linfield have even dipped their toe in that particular pool to date and they, with perhaps half a dozen full-timers, remain a long way behind the leading southern outfits in terms of financial muscle. Glentoran have a turnover of around 750,000, Linfield a little more than twice that while Lisburn Distillery, currently fifth in the table, generate just 250,000 per year. The figure for Drogheda, on the other hand, is some €3 million.
"Clearly, there's a big gap at the moment," says Glentoran chairman Stafford Reynolds. "But the Irish League sides are given something bigger to aspire to then we are sure we can rise to the challenge and make it work. The numbers at the moment simply don't add up. There are too many clubs for too few people. The fact is that something like this is desperately needed if the game here is to have a future."
United Ireland: The clubs most likely to be among the 12 . . .
Bohemians
Having agreed to sell Dalymount to developer Liam Carroll, the club are on course to move to the suburbs with money in their pocket. Would have no problem meeting the criteria.
Cork City
New owners Arkaga organised the meeting of clubs where an alternative All-Ireland league plan was hatched a few months back. The company is anxious to establish an improved business model for their club.
Derry City
Long-time proponents of a 32-county league and in a particularly strong position to benefit from it. City have gained control of the Brandywell which is to be redeveloped while their support would invigorated by the prospect of regular games against the big Belfast outfits.
Drogheda United
Already League of Ireland and Setanta Cup champions thanks to the backing of several wealthy businessmen but United's journey is still in its early stages with plans at an advanced stage for a new stadium and large commercial development off the M1 outside the town.
Galway United
Perhaps the country's most progressive club over the past few years. The result has been improved community links, substantial growth in revenues and impressive management standards.
St Patrick's Athletic
The involvement of Garrett Kelleher has transformed the outlook for the Inchicore club. He bought the club, installed a business-minded board and set his sights for the football side very high indeed.
Glentoran
With 22 championship titles to their name, it says something about the Irish League that the East Belfast outfit have spent much of their existence living in the shadows of city rivals Linfield. The club is aiming to sell the Oval and relocate to a purpose-built 10,000 seat ground.
Linfield
The North's richest and most successful club. The future of their ground is in some doubt but whatever happens they seem set to win with either a major redevelopment being paid for or the IFA/government having to compensate them for 80 odd years of unexpired lease.
. . . and the contenders for the remaining four places . . .
Shamrock Rovers
A great tradition and, after some difficult years, a well run club who is finally on the brink of having a place to call home again. Being owned by fans is, however, a limitation as well as an asset with no obvious source for the funding required to go full-time or provide capital for investment.
Sligo Rovers
Like Galway United, Sligo have worked hard over the last few years to develop a new future. With land of their own to work with they have an advantage over their rivals but, while there is a great football tradition in the town, the population and commercial bases are on the low side.
Waterford United
History would suggest that Waterford should be at Irish football's top table but would have to make a good deal of progress in order to merit a place in the new league. However, the RSC has received considerable investment in recent years and the club is apparently in good financial shape.
Portadown
The other member of the Irish League's "big three" for much of the past 20 years, the club has started to renovate and improve Shamrock Park and would have the advantage of bringing representation to an area outside of Belfast but would require investment to make the leap.
Cliftonville
Historically a protestant amateur club, the club was adopted by the Catholic/nationalist community that flooded into the area near the Solitude ground off the Antrim Road in the 1960s. For much of the time since it has been something of an outsider although their chairman, Jim Boyce, was, until recently, the IFA's most important elected official. The ground and team would both need substantial improvement but there would certainly be enthusiasm amongst the fans.
- Emmet Malone
© 2008 The Irish Times
How is this criterion possibly going to be implemented? Last year (going by the stats here), no-one got 3000 average crowds. Where are we going to get 12 such teams from? What happens if your average dips back under 3000? Do you get relegated or kicked out?
Unfortunately, Jim Roddy (as per usual) seems to be ignoring problems reconciling where the league is and where he sees it in his make believe land.
Cliftonville are already improving the ground they built a new away stand about 6 years ago and are in the process of building a new 1600 seater stand behind the other goal which should bring the ground up to European standards.Cliftonville
Historically a protestant amateur club, the club was adopted by the Catholic/nationalist community that flooded into the area near the Solitude ground off the Antrim Road in the 1960s. For much of the time since it has been something of an outsider although their chairman, Jim Boyce, was, until recently, the IFA's most important elected official. The ground and team would both need substantial improvement but there would certainly be enthusiasm amongst the fans.
As for the AIL I'm agree with the idea in principle but there is just not enough of details about how it will actually work so the welcome is a cautious one! Also as the article says it will probably take a lot of money to turn the club into a full time outfit!
As I said elsewhere, Emmet Malone has not even bothered to do the most basic of research so it is hard to take any credibility from his article. Someone said he is one of your better reporters?
Firstly, are you sure you read the quote from the Galway official right? I read ithe 5,000 as being capacity requirement (presumably to be implemented over time as very few clubs currently qualify) and the 3,000 as a projection for average crowds. If an AIL goes ahead, I think its well understood that it would be a failure if attendences didn't average over 3,000.
Also, I don't understand your last point, why do you need to reconcile it to the current league?
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