AIL:Will it happen?

[osarusan]

Right then I assume when Limerick next win a trophy, you'll be all in favour of dividing the prize money out equally.

Would you consider the current "cascading" of prize money unfair? I mean, the top clubs get far more than the bottom ones; that's perpetuating and making the gap between the clubs larger. Unfair! Right? So essentially you must also not want that to continue, and certainly not with 4 clubs inserted above you.

Gavin, good to see you haven't lost the ability to ignore posts - here's a post of mine from this very page -

the rewards for your efforts are that you have a better team than we do, you have bigger crowds than we do, you are in the top division, you play in Europe, you win prize money....while we do none of these things. You've made more effort as a club, and you're in a better position as a result

As I've said, I have no problems winning prize money, as it is a result of the efforts the club have made to improve. Cork City make more collective effort, and win more prize money than Limerick - doesn't bother me (apart from the fact that my team are relatively awful, and have been for a long time)


Let me stress it for you one more time-I have no problems with clubs being better than others, as long as the governing body is fair and the teams improve through their own efforts - this includes prize money, as I previously mentioned.

The problem I have is that under the proposed AIL structure, the governing body itself will be biased towards the better and more profitable teams. That simply isn't fair.

I'll ask you the same question I asked OneRedArmy -

The opposite to my above post is that the governing body is biased towards certain clubs and actively helps some clubs progress faster than they have been, while hindering the progress of others by ignoring them.

Is that what you want? Are you happy with this premise as the system under which the AIL will be run?

Is that what you want Gavin?

[Redie]

As a matter of interest does anyone know of any other country that has a senior league run in a similar manner to that proposed by the AIL people - i.e. an elite league run almost as a private company detached from the National Governing Body, etc.

[passerrby]

[QUOTE=OneRedArmy;848575]

Well, as I understand it, the moneymen behind the AIL are only interested in a limited field of "big" names. They have no interest in the lower tier as sponsors and TV have no interest in this. What this broadly means is that the wider market has no interest in teams outside of the top tier. Therefore funding teams outside the top tier is an artificial redistribution of income taking money away from the top teams.

QUOTE]

if everything you say is true and i dont douth it then i cant undrstand why on gods green earth you expect the other clubs to support this, and do you need our support in the first place

[OneRedArmy]

As a matter of interest does anyone know of any other country that has a senior league run in a similar manner to that proposed by the AIL people - i.e. an elite league run almost as a private company detached from the National Governing Body, etc.

The English Premiership.

[OneRedArmy]

if everything you say is true and i dont douth it then i cant undrstand why on gods green earth you expect the other clubs to support this, and do you need our support in the first place

Debatable whether it requires other clubs support and I don't expect clubs to support it.

[mypost]

AIL: Will it happen?

Hopefully no.

The only team from the North who would be vaguely competitive, would be Linfield. The rest of them would be relegation candidates.

As for the practicalities of the seasons not matching, I don't see the view on either side changing. They want their games on Saturday at 3pm in December, while we want ours on Fridays at 7.45 in June. Neither side is prepared to budge an inch.

It would weaken the league instead of strengthen it.

[passerrby]

Debatable whether it requires other clubs support and I don't expect clubs to support it.

I hope they go and give it a bash best of luck to em i can only wish them all that they deserve

[monutdfc]

Sounds like Franchise Football to me.

I'm in support of an AIL, but only if a pyramid structure remains.

[GavinZac]

Is that what you want Gavin?

I don't get it. The hypothetical, speculated governing body is "favouring" other teams because they've been successful, they've turned full time and are thus in the new premier? If i was to guess now, I'd say your qualm is with the selection process being business based and not football based. We went through that last year and while your own club couldn't have much complaints, it being a week old when the selection was made, it must have been rough on old dundalk. Fair enough, but then that was another thing "we all agreed to and cant complain about".

This time however, it is clearly even more justifiable to choose for off-the-field reasons; supposedly 4 of the clubs are from an entirely different league, the structure is completely new, and there is no footballing precedent for it bar the setanta cup which has featured so far about 10 teams(?).

I think people are reading far too much into supposed "G6/8" and elitism. I know for a fact that Aidan Tynan, one of the drivers behind this, has met with his Waterford counterpart during the last few months aswell.

Sounds like Franchise Football to me.

If you take the speculation re: single companies and stuff seriously.

I'm in support of an AIL, but only if a pyramid structure remains.

I would echo this.

[micls]

The problem I have is that under the proposed AIL structure, the governing body itself will be biased towards the better and more profitable teams. That simply isn't fair.

Osarsan I have been talking about an AIL in general rather than the speculation about what could be happening with the one planned at the moment.

And from that viewpoint I don't see why we're so sure the governing body will be biased? Anymore than the governing body now is. Look at the FAI, how much of a chance did they give a small team(Limerick) last season? Now compare that to the years off leeway they gave the big team (Shels). Fair? Unbiased? Questionable imo.

Even in the current 'proposals' Im not certain the governing body will be biased. Firstly I certainly am not taking every rumour about it on here as fact so I see very little proof of it apart from it only seems to be the bigger clubs driving it at the moment.

Football will always be 'unfair'. It is worldwide when it comes to finance, but with a proper pyramid system in place and parachute money for the promoted, not relegated, I don't see why an AIL would be any more unfair than things are now.

[osarusan]

Osarsan I have been talking about an AIL in general rather than the speculation about what could be happening with the one planned at the moment.

Even in the current 'proposals' Im not certain the governing body will be biased.

with a proper pyramid system in place and parachute money for the promoted, not relegated, I don't see why an AIL would be any more unfair than things are now.

Re your first paragraph, fair enough if that is the case, I have been referring to the info (or rumours) we have regarding the current proposal. Your AIL of the future would be a different prospect to the current version, I hope, as your third paragraph implies.

Your second and third paragraph contradict themselves a bit though, as the situation you outline in the third paragraph is clearly different (in that it is fair) from the current proposals.

But thanks for a rational and reasoned response. I appreciate it.

[GavinZac]

Re your first paragraph, fair enough if that is the case, I have been referring to the info (or rumours) we have regarding the current proposal. Your AIL of the future would be a different prospect to the current version, I hope, as your third paragraph implies.

Well that clears up that confusion. Why would you take any newspaper talk seriously, or assume anyone else would?

[Steve Bruce]

AIL: Will it happen?

Hopefully no.

The only team from the North who would be vaguely competitive, would be Linfield. The rest of them would be relegation candidates.

As for the practicalities of the seasons not matching, I don't see the view on either side changing. They want their games on Saturday at 3pm in December, while we want ours on Fridays at 7.45 in June. Neither side is prepared to budge an inch.

It would weaken the league instead of strengthen it.

Sorry uneducated rubbish.

Linfield would comfortably contend for the championship and we have proved we can consistantly beat the best the LOI has.(i'm not saying we would win the AIL, but we would certainly be contenders)

Cliftonville would be a fringe contender, one that would last the pace for a lot of the season before falling away.

Glentoran although have been shown up in the Setanta cup so far, are a far better side than the Setanta cup results show. Although I would say they wuold be an upper mid table side.

The rest would be lower mid to relegation candidates.

Your league is better than ours on the whole. But it is not worlds apart by any stretch of the imagination.

[micls]

as the situation you outline in the third paragraph is clearly different (in that it is fair) from the current proposals.
.

The point being none of us know what the current proposals actually are. There are rumours being posted on here, but absolutely nothing official.

[Redie]

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The English Premiership.

Absolutely no comparison. I am depending on memory here and stand corrected on the following points.

When the English Premier League was set up about fifteen years ago the main driving force behind it was Sky TV who were just starting up at that time and offered something like 360 million pounds for the full rights to the new league, this compared to the 10 million or so the BBC/ITV were paying at the time. Rupert Murdoch saw the new league as the best way to sell the number of Sky dishes needed to get his new empire up and running. In the years prior to that there were some mutterings about the then big five – Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Man. Utd – breaking away from the league. However negations were held between all of the clubs and the then English League and the English FA and a procedure was agreed for the formation of the new Premier Division. Crucially ALL the teams that were in the existing first division were entitled to join the new Premier Division at the end of the season except for the three clubs that were relegated and – more crucially – all the teams in the then Second Division had the opportunity to join the new Premier Division if they finished in the top three and got promoted, not sure if the play-offs were in place at that time. Then at the end of the season in question the then First Division became the Premier Division and the then Second Division became the First division – and so on – and then Sky took over. At no time was an elite group of clubs hand-picked to form the new division and at no time was the promotion/relegation trap door tampered with.

Of course the result of all that is that is today the English Premier League is an over-hyped circus that gets saturation TV coverage and is awash with money, the most of which goes to that horrible creation that is the modern day professional football, who play more often than not in half empty football grounds.

Now if an All Ireland League is proposed that will offer the opportunity for all the teams in the top division of the current two leagues to play in it as long as they don’t get relegated and offers the opportunity of all the teams in the second division of the current two leagues the opportunity to get promoted into it and is run in conjunction with the two Football Associations then I think it might be worth a go.

[OneRedArmy]

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy




Absolutely no comparison. I am depending on memory here and stand corrected on the following points.

When the English Premier League was set up about fifteen years ago the main driving force behind it was Sky TV who were just starting up at that time and offered something like 360 million pounds for the full rights to the new league, this compared to the 10 million or so the BBC/ITV were paying at the time. Rupert Murdoch saw the new league as the best way to sell the number of Sky dishes needed to get his new empire up and running. In the years prior to that there were some mutterings about the then big five – Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Man. Utd – breaking away from the league. However negations were held between all of the clubs and the then English League and the English FA and a procedure was agreed for the formation of the new Premier Division. Crucially ALL the teams that were in the existing first division were entitled to join the new Premier Division at the end of the season except for the three clubs that were relegated and – more crucially – all the teams in the then Second Division had the opportunity to join the new Premier Division if they finished in the top three and got promoted, not sure if the play-offs were in place at that time. Then at the end of the season in question the then First Division became the Premier Division and the then Second Division became the First division – and so on – and then Sky took over. At no time was an elite group of clubs hand-picked to form the new division and at no time was the promotion/relegation trap door tampered with.

Of course the result of all that is that is today the English Premier League is an over-hyped circus that gets saturation TV coverage and is awash with money, the most of which goes to that horrible creation that is the modern day professional football, who play more often than not in half empty football grounds.

Now if an All Ireland League is proposed that will offer the opportunity for all the teams in the top division of the current two leagues to play in it as long as they don’t get relegated and offers the opportunity of all the teams in the second division of the current two leagues the opportunity to get promoted into it and is run in conjunction with the two Football Associations then I think it might be worth a go.

Read your question and my response.

I answered your question.

You may have thought you asked the question you just responded to above, but you didn't.

Also for the record, the Premier League may well have "negotiated" with the football authorities but it was with the implied threat of withdrawing. It was a fairly one-sided negotiation.

[Redie]

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

You may have thought you asked the question you just responded to above, but you didn't.

I think I know what you mean and yes maybe I didn't but at my age......

Also for the record, the Premier League may well have "negotiated" with the football authorities but it was with the implied threat of withdrawing. It was a fairly one-sided negotiation.

Absolutely right and I think all the clubs in the then first division resigned from the league in order to to bring about the change - I think Oldham was one of the originals - but I repeat ALL the clubs at the time had an equal opportunity of being part of the new all-singing All-dancing Premier Division

[mypost]

Sorry uneducated rubbish. Linfield would comfortably contend for the championship and we have proved we can consistantly beat the best the LOI has.(i'm not saying we would win the AIL, but we would certainly be contenders)

Linfield would never win the AIL as long as they remain a part-time side. Yes, they can compete in the Setanta Cup during pre/early season for NL sides, but over the season, they wouldn't be able to sustain a challenge.

Cliftonville would be a fringe contender, one that would last the pace for a lot of the season before falling away.

Glentoran although have been shown up in the Setanta cup so far, are a far better side than the Setanta cup results show. Although I would say they wuold be an upper mid table side.

The rest would be lower mid to relegation candidates.

Your league is better than ours on the whole. But it is not worlds apart by any stretch of the imagination.

When you have match fit sides losing 5-0 and 7-0 to clubs in pre-season, the gulf in class is massive. Glentoran were hammered by Shels in Europe and have done nothing of note in the Setanta Cup, while Cliftonville have not played in it before. The NI teams would face a perennial struggle to stay up in an AIL, and would weaken the NL considerably.

[Mr_Parker]

Sounds like Franchise Football to me.

Exactly

If you take the speculation re: single companies and stuff seriously.

Not just speculation.

I'm in support of an AIL, but only if a pyramid structure remains.

It won't.

[OneRedArmy]

It won't.

So the proposals don't allow for promotion and relegation into the AIL from domestic leagues?