So you're linking race to stealing? What race are the Roma, by the way?Originally Posted by dahamsta
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
I agree that S.front is pig-ignorant, but doubt us borderline racists(I assume I'm included in that) would feel at home. Personally I rather the evenly balanced debate that we get here as opposed to the one sided deluded nazi cr@p that I've just flicked through over there
Tbh I think the throwing out of the racism card is a bit OTT and brings nothing to the debate.
As far as I can see the majority including Raptor(though Ive disagreed with them) are judging them on their actions(or what they perceive to be their actions) i.e. stealing etc rather than wanting them out because of who they are.
There may be some over-generalistation but hardly racism.
They dont want Romas out because they are Romanian gypsies but because or their actions in society, I may not agree with them but people are far to quick to use the racism card whenever someone says anything bad. about a group of people.
Granted there is one or too posts a bit over the top but for the main people are giving their opinions on the usefulness of these people in our society.
You do to be honest, even moreso than InExile and Gavinzac
Don't tell that to the Fianna Failers then
I'd agree if they hadn't advocated running a whole group straight out of the country based on the actions of some of them (reminds me of the morons who go on about all Nigerians being rapists), or called Romas inferior to us, but they did, and so I'm calling them pig ignorant
Sorry if I came across like that, I do not have a prejudice against any Race for who they are or maybe perceived to be, Like Micls said, I have strong feeling's about this topic based on multiple personal experiences, not least of these, actually traveling to Romania and seeing just what the gypsies have amassed in that country, through sending money home etc. There is a lot of resentment in Romania now because Roma are using money earned abroad to buy a lot of properties in Romania
I did not intend to suggest that Roma are inherently inferior to us more that their chosen path in life is less acceptable to me. in plain words I believe that it is there mind set/beliefs/culture whatever to go through life taking and not giving. and yes I do have a problem with them being here under those circumstances, I don't for a minute believe that it is a few giving the majority a bad name nor to I believe that there are not some who want to better themselves, however it is my opinion based on personal experience that the former vastly out number the later. If that makes me racist then so be it I'm Racist
Last edited by Block G Raptor; 03/01/2008 at 1:51 PM.
From what I can see Raptor said this, but based in on ALL Romas stealing, so perhaps ignorant of the facts, but not racist. He wanted those who do steal( he even said he didnt mind begging) out.
Gavinzac,advocated putting them in jail if they steal or harass someone and didnt mention deportation.
CAnt really remember what inexile said
Where?
A big difference between ignorance and the racist crap spouted on S. Front
If someone is claiming residence here from another EU, hasn't registered for a PPS and therefore is doing nothing for Irish society in general, and is convicted of any crime, either they shouldn't be allowed to stay in the country and should be dealt with under their own legal system, or they should be punished by our own courts and not given a rap on the knuckles as is the current situation. If your problem is with generalisation, I can understand that but begging and stealing are part of their culture, as much as male superiority is part of arabic culture. Cultures have bad aspects and good aspects; We don't neccessarily have to respect the bad ones just because someone is moronic enough to equate "most Roma gypsies that have travelled here aren't earning their income legally or morally" with "I hate blacks and jews and have a high post count on ************".
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Just a little aside on all this: I wonder if our economy was as dependent on tourism as it once was would the government be seen to be as tolerant of Begging and Vagrancy?
surely the instances of this behavior on our city streets can not be good for tourism
Is just two pieces from the tripe thats being spewed here, look up the rest yourselves cause I can't be bothered answering to ye anymore
Thats my opinion, because in my experience and based on empirical evidence, Roma gypsies are here to leech, not to seek fairer wages in a member EU state. Of course we can't do that legally, and I wouldn't condone just deporting them willy-nilly as it'd throw all the other good aspects of the EU into doubt, but we would be better off if we could tell in advance of them coming in what their purposes were, á la USA. I'd love it if they were coming here to work, like other cultures/nationalities, but they aren't. They just aren't! And they haven't been for centuries, no matter where they went. Ask yourself why they aren't all in France anymore and why they are here. To work? to enjoy our friendly welcoming society?
Do you disagree that every Roma in your experience has been unemployed and at very least doing nothing more productive than selling Dunnes stores roses at a 50% mark up to drunk people?
I've worked with Polish, Czech, Nigerian and Lithuanian people. I attend college with Chinese people and German people. One of my better friend's family moved here from Holland via England. These people have been making an honest living or earning an education from a truick driver to a EMC software specialist. Some of them have been the nicest people I've met, others haven't. Same as anybody, right? I'm delighted that we're no longer a homogenous bunch of hillbillies and I've learnt a lot from both travellers and travels. Have you heard of a Roma fulfilling any similar role? Have you heard of a Roma being friendly with 'us'? I abhor generalisations as much as anyone but the Roma case is one that sticks two fingers up to tolerance and political correctness. When does a generalisation become fact?
Last edited by GavinZac; 03/01/2008 at 2:41 PM.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
the minority may make this little effort the majority don't even bother they just stick a papercup or a months old big issue in your face
Agree 100%
God I'm always drawn back in, anyway the two questions I took from your 'I'm not a racist' spiel there was have I ever met any Roma who works and have I ever met a nice one? The answers are I don't know, I generally don't ask people what they do, and yes I have, as I've told already back on page one.
Oh and on your 'we all have good and bad elements' point, yes we do, in fact thats my main argument against your 'drive them all from Ireland' credo of earlier
Last edited by jebus; 03/01/2008 at 3:18 PM.
you're a grand lad for putting words in people's mouths. You still haven't pointed out where your 'subhuman' claim came from.
So you think we should tolerate their culture's adherence to leeching from other workers or their discrimination of basic women's rights so as to gain the benefit of the other highpoints of their culture, such as their music or, er, dislike of cats?Oh and one your 'we all have good and bad elements' point, yes we do, in fact thats my main argument against your 'drive them all from Ireland' credo of earlier
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
You forgot their welding skills and artistic prowess
say's a lot really when it is that hard to find one significant thing a Culture much more ancient than our own has contributed to society in general
I suppose what really gets me about the "bleeding Heart liberals" (yes that's you Jebus and Magicme) is that they insist that we respect the culture of whatever immigrant group they're defending whilst labeling those of us that insist that immigrants respect our culture as racists
Last edited by Block G Raptor; 03/01/2008 at 3:31 PM.
From Block Raptors 'they are the worst parts of humanity all rolled into one' speech I have now highlighted twice. Do you need me to highlight it again? I can ask Dahamsta to arrange for me to change my font colour to bright, shiny ones too if needs be. Run along lads your battle was lost many, many posts ago.
And Block you haven't had a leg to stand on since your other thread about Ethnic Irish being sidelined
Last edited by jebus; 03/01/2008 at 3:40 PM.
Roma sell Big Issues ffs, think before you open your mouth
OK Jebus i'll clarify the point which I obviously made badly, I did not mean to say that Roma are the worst parts of humanity all rolled into one, what I actually meant is that for century's a large part Roma "Culture" has been to migrate to a country more affluent than their own and to eek a living from that affluence without actually contributing much of value to their adopted home, and I'm sorry if it offends you but I feel that this is a bloody poor attribute to be considered Culture.
as for the other thread being sidelined, I was merely highlighting statistical information that to me showed proof of what I've suspected for a long time that immigrants are out numbering the Irish people in large swaths of this city, It's hardly my fault that it was dragged off topic by other poster's concentrating on a comment left by some bigot at the end of the blog
ps Jebus didn't realise this was a battle thought it was an informed discussion on an Issue which I think will be more and more topical as the economy slows down
Last edited by Block G Raptor; 03/01/2008 at 3:58 PM.
BGR, you're going to have to knock the pigeonholing and stereotyping on the head pretty soon or I'm going to have to withdraw your rights to post here. Pigeonholing an entire race of people is racism, whether you want to accept that or not. Tone it down and add some "mosts" and/or "manys" to your posts or you'll be out on your ear. Better yet, try to understand that what you're saying - or more importantly the way you're saying it - is ignorant, and try to express yourself more intelligently.
adam
OK fair point, well made. I wish I could make my points as clearly, as Im obviously coming across as a racist muppet when I'm really trying not to
as for me being ignorant that's your opinion and you are fully entitled to it, but I disagree as I consider myself to be quite knowledgeable and informed about this issue
as opposed to just towing the PC line, all of the points i've made here have been based on my personal experiences in Dublin and Bucharest/ Surrounding Rural area's and also those of some of my very close Romanian friends. and on research and reading that I've done recently mostly on line but from reputable sources (not S.Front and sites of that Ilk) I can post links to some interesting historical essays on Roma history and culture to back this up
Last edited by Block G Raptor; 03/01/2008 at 4:04 PM.
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