QuoteI am serious, and I'm not in the bitter camp.Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
I quoted you a fact.
Sanchez got us three good results.
Come on you cannot be serious.Just one small fact:
Even without the benefit of any experimental friendlies, ie. having been chucked in at the deep end after Sanchez bolted, Nigel Worthington's record in charge of his first six Northern Ireland matches is superior to Sanchez's record in his first six games in charge.
Sanchez lacked conviction, confidence and patience.
How can you compare the two situations?
Sanchez took over NI when we where 120 in the world?
We didn't score in over 10 matches and the NI team was an aging team
Worthington took over a team full of confidence in a qualifying spot, a young hungry team who are having the time of their lives. 36th in the world or something like that.
You are obviously in the bitter camp. Say no more.
The Hallion Battalion Molests football.:D
I am serious, and I'm not in the bitter camp.
I quoted you a fact.
Sanchez got us three good results.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Rubbish.
Sanchez was appointed manager of Northern Ireland with the NI ranked 124th in the world, with a 1,298 minute-long goal drought and had not won a game for nearly three years. Northern Ireland improved markedly under Sanchez, and by the time he left, Northern Ireland were top of their Euro 2008 qualification group and were ranked 33rd in the world, equalling their best ever position.
Right enough he got their with only 3 good results
The Hallion Battalion Molests football.:D
What about the 0-0 draw away to Denmark?
Another excellent result
So Ealing I see that you like him then. I agree. I think he would be good for the ROIThat's really not how it worked with NI under LS, since I simply don't recall our defenders hoofing it down the middle and certainly never the big guy (Quinn or Lafferty) ever "nodding it out to the wingers". (Granted, Taylor did set up a couple of goals for Healy via a quick punt down the field, but that was an ad hoc response to heavy pressure, where the opposition were caught forward, rather than a pre-planned tactic)
Sanchez relied heavily on wide players (Gillespie or Jones on the right, Elliott, Brunt or Sproule on the left), who hit a mixture of early crosses, through passes or pull-backs from the byline.
His centre midfield was usually a combination of a ball-winner (Johnson or Clingan) alongside a more creative player (Davis).
In all cases, they were instructed to get the ball forward quickly, but it was as often to Healy cutting in from either flank or timing a late run as it was to the big guy, it was as often via the wings as it was through the middle and it was more often along the deck than up in the air, since regardless of position, Healy was the usual target. As such, his goals were of every type (close-in, from distance, headers, either foot, through on the keeper, chipped from the edge of the box etc).
Therefore, the key was in Healy's mobility, perpetual work rate and accuracy, with the player on the ball to get it forward quickly and all the other players instructed to provide physical support and take defenders away from him.
As UEFA's stats show, Healy was actually flagged offside more times than any other player in the Euro qualifiers:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/eur...t=o/index.html
For most players, you'd just say that he was inept, except that he scored more goals than anyone else:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/eur...=gs/index.html
He also had the 3rd highest number of attempts on target:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/eur...=sg/index.html
However, when it came to the number of shots off target, he was only 10th equal (alongside Robbie Keane!)
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/eur...=sw/index.html
What this says is that Healy worked incredibly hard, forever pushing defences to the limit all along the front line, so that when he did get the ball away from a defender within scoring range, his extremely accurate finishing (i.e not just on target, but beyond the keeper) did the rest.
And the other significant statistic about Healy is that he played every one of the 13 scoreless games before Sanchez took over.
Therefore, it is clear to me that with NI, Sanchez quickly found a system to suit the players available to him, without that system being Route One (long ball).
Which is why I feel that if he were given the ROI job, he'd also have to work with the players available to him, and therefore have to find the system which best suited them.
Moreover, on the question of attitude, he'd quickly sort out those whose attitude is suspect, thereby concentrating on the players he trusted.
If I were Delaney, I'd instruct the Selection Panel to camp out on Sanchez's doorstep every night until he signed, since he's proven with NI that he can transform an underperforming team at international level, and with the better basic talent available to him in the ROI squad, I think he'd be as good a bet to qualify as anyone esle who is realistically available.
But as I say, I doubt if he'd accept
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist thinks it will change; the realist adjusts the sails.
Interesting stuff EG and all in all a resounding yes from you and steve bruce. I will just say that i will not be disappointed if he is announced as our new manager.
Was he crazy!! Yeah , in a very special way , an Irishman.
I slept, and dreamed that life was Beauty;
I woke, and found that life was Duty.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are better managers than LS (e.g. Allardyce, Deschamps, Houllier etc), it's just that as we saw with Hodgson, I doubt whether the FAI will be able to persuade them, even with the big salary on offer.
Did the FAI try to persuade Hodgson? I thought they just met with him, never got back to him as they had a load of dummies to interview, and he quite understandably took the Fulham gig rather than wait to see about Ireland?
Sanchez would be a big dissapointment for me.
I've a feeling they knocked him back. Don't know it was just the way he said it in the interview "I met with the selection committee, but was not offered the Job" is that not just a polite way of saying "I was knocked back"
i heard from a decent enough source that hodgson was met twice by the FAI prior to Christmas and was very nearly our manager. i've no proof but i heard that just before he was offered the fulham job and before hodgson made it known publically that he had met the FAI. he has had a flat in london for a while now and made it known that a return to london was his preference
the time to get him was before he was appointed finnish manager. hardly heard him mentioned as a possible manager when kerr was let go
As someone who has been watching NI for nearer 40 years, I believe in taking the long view, rather than "a quick look"! And no matter how you view it, Lawrie's record as NI manager was excellent - exceeded only by Bingham (imo).
The Statistics bear this out:
http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...-managers.html
Northern Ireland: The Managers
Manager.............First Game..Last Game........All Games..........Goals...Success
.................................................. .......... Pl...W....D....L.....F : A........Rate..
Committee...........18/02/1882..12/05/1951..174...29...27..118..198:.559..21.8%
Peter Doherty.......06/10/1951..09/05/1962...51....9...14...28...67:.119..26.8%
Bertie Peacock......10/10/1962..12/04/1967...28...11....4...13...46:..54..44.0%
Billy Bingham.......21/10/1967..22/05/1971......20....8....3....9...24:..22..45.0%
Terry Neill.........22/09/1971..30/10/1974......20....6....6....8...16:..18..40.0%
Dave Clements.......16/03/1975..14/05/1976.....11....3....2....6....7:..15..33.3%
Danny Blanchflower..13/10/1976..21/11/1979...24....6....5...13...19:..37..31.9%
Billy Bingham.......26/03/1980..17/11/1993...98...32...32...34...92:.107..43.5%
Bryan Hamilton......23/03/1994..11/10/1997...31....8....8...15...34:..41..34.4%
Lawrie McMenemy.....25/03/1998..10/10/1999...14....4....3....7....9:..25..35.7%
Sammy McIlroy.......23/02/2000..11/10/2003...29....5....7...17...19:..40..25.3%
Lawrie Sanchez......18/02/2004..28/03/2007...32...11...10...11...35:..42..44.8%
Nigel Worthington*..22/08/2007..21/11/2007... 6... 2... 1... 3... 7:.. 7..38.8%
TOTAL............................................. ....513..127..114..272..545:1049..32.1%
His "Success Rate" is highest of all (just!);
He is our only manager to have won as many as he lost;
He took over when the team was argably in its worst state in decades;
Granted he never qualified for a Finals (though had he stayed he might have). Then again, he never had the quality of players available to Doherty (e.g. Gregg, Blanchflower, McIlroy, Peacock, McParland) or Bingham (e.g. Jennings, O'Neill, Best, Whiteside, Donaghy), nor was their era so competitive for Finals places for the European region;
During his tenure, he had 10 players who each gained 20 or more caps. Every one of these bar Steven Davis was available to his predecessor, who couldn't buy a goal, never mind a victory. Yet LS was denied top Division players available to McIlroy either due to retirement (Taggart, Magilton, Lennon) or age (Lomas, Hughes);
McIlroy managed 5 wins in 29 games - 3 against Malta and one each against Liechtenstein and Iceland. (Two of these were friendlies, btw)
Under McIlroy, Healy scored 8 goals in 29 games; under LS the same player got 21 in 27;
As LS gained more experience (and got the team playing his way), results and performances showed clear improvement. Whereas with Hamilton, McMenemy and McIlroy, results and performances got noticeably worse as they went on.
But I'll give you the "hissy fit" with the Press; I mean to say, it's one thing beating the likes of Spain, Sweden and England, but anyone who takes the hump at such literary and footballing luminaries as Stephen Beacom clearly has no right being in the job...
Last edited by EalingGreen; 16/01/2008 at 2:51 PM.
We scored a goal (hip hip hurrah) in a 4-1 home gubbing by Norway.
We got a friendly win away to the mighty Estonia, before drawing with a crack Barbados side.
We struggled then to beat a couple of mountains called St Kitts and Nevis, and got a decent win in Tobago.
To be blunt, it didn't take a genius to achieve any of that.
When the real action started, Poland tore us apart at Windsor Park.
His WC Qualifying campaign was nothing special - bar a home win against a, grossly overrated, England team.
Canada, Malta, Azerbaijan results/performances seem to be easy forgotten.
He took over when the only way to go was up.
When it came to the bit, he lacked the conviction, confidence and patience to see him complete a job he had started well in the Euros.
Mixed memories for me.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
We've kicked on then, under Nigel, setting new highs.
Currently ranked 32nd.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Not so much "mixed" memories, as selective ones.
If the wholesale transformation he achieved wasn't immediate, nor without stumbles along the way - progress usually is "Two steps forward, one step back" - the overall picture is nonetheless undeniable:
1. As many wins as defeats (unprecedented);
2. A 44.8% "Success Rate";
3. An unprecedented rise in the FIFA rankings of over 80 places;
4. The majority of credit for finishing 3rd with 20 points in a tough Euro Group, when his predecessor had seen us finish bottom with 3 points (below Armenia on seven!) and not even a goal, in an easier Euro Group just four years earlier;
5. The greatest surge in optimism and pride amongst the support since the days of Bingham.
Sure, you can point to horror stories like Iceland and Poland, but if you look back through the historybooks, that's the entire story of being an NI fan - even under Bingham.
But what LS also had was the ability to cancel these out with exceptional results in a way which only Bingham, Doherty (for a period) and Peacock (possibly) amongst our previous managers could be said to have achieved.
As for your assertion that he lacked "confidence", how can you say that when he was just about the only one who felt we could beat England at Windsor - for the first time since 1927?
Or that he lacked "conviction", when it was he who, before the Sweden game, produced a mock-up of what the Group Table would look like when (not "if") we beat them?
As for "patience" - who gives a stuff about that?
Fair enough, criticise him all you like for the manner and timing of his departure, but don't allow the frustration or anger to cause you to try to rewrite the record whilst he was in charge, in direct denial of what is plain to see.
Like I said, three good results, in amongst some dross.Fair enough, criticise him all you like for the manner and timing of his departure, but don't allow the frustration or anger to cause you to try to rewrite the record whilst he was in charge, in direct denial of what is plain to see.
Lacked conviction - bolted at the first opportunity. Didn't see the job thru. Left it at the half way point, whilst in the lead.
Lacked confidence - if he really believed he could of got Northern Ireland to the Euro finals, he would have stayed on to reap the rewards of that success.
Lacked patience - first to wave a wad in front of his face and away he went.
I was neither frustrated, nor angry that he departed.
Then again, I never thought he was the dogs.
Good luck to him - six months is a long time in this game.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Move this thread to the Irish league forum fast.
Arenīt you guys usually not allowed to argue amongst yourselves when out and about doing your PR missionary work in and amongst all the discussion boards of the world?
This thread, on an interviewee for the ROI manager's job, was started by an ROI fan.
Around a dozen ROI fans posted before any NI fan.
LS's recent record in charge of a comparable and neighbouring team is surely relevant to his prospects in the ROI post were he to get it.
Not Brazil & I (and Steve Bruce) were merely debating how successful he was (or otherwise) in the NI post.
Therefore our posts can hardly be deemed irrelevant/off-topic (at least no more than many on this Board)
I note from some of your other posts that you seem to have a real problem with NI posters who "dare" to express an opinion on anything on this Board - even where they are qualified to do so, maintain a moderate tone, and remain strictly on-topic. Or is it just me you object to?
Either way, you might as well get used to it.
Enjoyed reading your posts on this thread Ealing Green .. you certainly make a very good case for Sanchez. Would prefer him to Venables, O'leary and a few other of the so-called front runners.
i can only assume that you must be bitter (or at the very least upset) about his departure Not Brazil!
Ye offically had the worst record in international football (for not scoring a goal - 13 games), had a team (lets face it) made up mostly of nobodys.
were 128th in the world and going nowhere fast.
Sanchez came in and in an interview I remember he stated he had 3 objectives.
1. score a goal then
2. win a game then
3. overtake us in the rankings
he achieved all 3. when he left ye were in pole position to qualify and had some excellent results against really top teams during his tenure. he operated on meager resources but did what all good managers are able to do - made them perform better than the sum of their parts.
it is often said that success in management is leaving the team in a better standing than when you took it. he was mega-successful in that regard.
granted there were some really poor results thrown into the mix but unfortunately for the smaller countries that is par for the course.
obviously it would have hurt when he left - personally i would have been disgusted. but, unfortunately nowadays loyalty is rare in football and managers and players have to make moves when their stock is high. his was very high when he left and he got a premier league job from his time with NI. having come from Wycombe Wanders iirc that is a serious leap for him. As you say yourself 6 months is a long time in football and perhaps an offer like that may not have been there again.
Club management is a far more attractive proposition today than international management and NI were victims of an ambitious and successiful manager, as were Scotland. I mean 20 years there is no way on God's earth that a Scotland manager would leave his post to take the reigns at Birmingham!!!
Totally agree here. Especially prefer him to TV. LS wouldn't be my first choice but much better than some of the driftwood we are being associated with.
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