Rovers Win

**Erstwhile B�z** · 16/12/2007, 8:16 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Lord

How is football 'foreign' if it's been played here since the 1870s? It's been part of the fabric of Irish sporting life for generations. And is it regarded as 'foreign' in Italy, Germany or Spain? No.
Putting borders on such a global activity is nonsense. Are films 'foreign'? The same could be said of books, TV, coal, tea and even the beloved internet.
Unlike other sporting bodies, the GAA bans certain games from its playing fields for no other reason than it regards them as foreign. Just because we, as a nation, have largely ignored or accepted such sporting apartheid doesn't make it right, justified or true.
Besides, who gave the GAA the right to determine what's an Irish sport and what's not? Football's my sport and I'm no less Irish than any GAA member.

Grand. I'd agree with most of that, I think, even down to the strange last sentence. Whether a sport can ever be described as 'foreign' in the first place is another question, and you seem to say that it can't. This, though, would seem unrelated to the post I quoted where you seem to imply that 'foreignness' has to do primarily with chronology. And again, above, you ask "How is football 'foreign' if it's been played here since the 1870s? It's been part of the fabric of Irish sporting life for generations.": does this mean that football was 'foreign' to Ireland in the 1870s until the passing of a certain number of generations naturalised it?

Originally Posted by HulaHoop

It is a quote taken directly from Thomas Davis affidavit to the High Court. They argued that "the youth of Tallaght will be restricted to a diet of Association football" and that a soccer-only ground would place the "applicant at a severe disadvantage in attracting the youth of Tallaght to club, sport and the GAA culture."

They didn't take the quote very directly if they changed the words.

**HulaHoop** · 16/12/2007, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by Erstwhile B�z

They didn't take the quote very directly if they changed the words.

Nitpicking - so he used the word subjected rather than restricted. Big deal

**Erstwhile B�z** · 16/12/2007, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by HulaHoop

Nitpicking - so he used the word subjected rather than restricted. Big deal

Saying that Thomas Davis's affidavit contained a quote about the youth of Tallaght being "subjected" to football makes them sound like raving anti-soccer lunatics (which they may well be); a quote about their (blatantly spurious) concern being that the choice available to the sporting youth of Tallaght might be "restricted" to football doesn't have the same effect of fixing them in the nineteenth century.

They were wrong either way, but they're bad enough without putting words in their mouths.

**Billy Lord** · 16/12/2007, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Erstwhile B�z

Grand. I'd agree with most of that, I think, even down to the strange last sentence. Whether a sport can ever be described as 'foreign' in the first place is another question, and you seem to say that it can't. This, though, would seem unrelated to the post I quoted where you seem to imply that 'foreignness' has to do primarily with chronology. And again, above, you ask "How is football 'foreign' if it's been played here since the 1870s? It's been part of the fabric of Irish sporting life for generations.": does this mean that football was 'foreign' to Ireland in the 1870s until the passing of a certain number of generations naturalised it?

I just find it odd that a sport that has deeper roots in Ireland than gaelic football can be described by the GAA as 'foreign'. Association Football originated in England, but its universal appeal has made it an international activity. To describe it as 'foreign' is fatuous. Jeans were invented somewhere other than Ireland so should they be considered a 'foreign' form of attire? I don't think so.
The GAA consider football an alien activity constitutionally unworthy of sharing their grass. Their rule, not mine - and a rule that is unique in terms of sporting apartheid.

**Erstwhile B�z** · 16/12/2007, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Lord

I just find it odd that a sport that has deeper roots in Ireland than gaelic football can be described by the GAA as 'foreign'. Association Football originated in England, but its universal appeal has made it an international activity. To describe it as 'foreign' is fatuous. Jeans were invented somewhere other than Ireland so should they be considered a 'foreign' form of attire? I don't think so.
The GAA consider football an alien activity constitutionally unworthy of sharing their grass. Their rule, not mine - and a rule that is unique in terms of sporting apartheid.

The GAA's view, presumably, is that they are an Irish association and the rules they came up with for their games (however influenced they all were by an international fad at the time for sports codification) were devised here. And given that they're forever being slagged for their lack of a bona fide international dimension, I think it's safe to say 'no Ireland, no GAA'.

INSOFAR as there can be foreign games and native games in the barmy context of nineteenth-century codifications their position, therefore, would surely be that they are not them.

As terminology goes, 'foreign' is outmoded, to say the least; as a distinction, it's now useless and does those who make it no favours. But I can sort of see where they're coming from if they want to cling on to the fact that of the games associations in Ireland, they are one of the homegrown ones.

I'm not sure how widely used the term 'foreign' is any more or what status it has in that pesky GAA Rule Book in any case.

**Billy Lord** · 17/12/2007, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Erstwhile B�z

The GAA's view, presumably, is that they are an Irish association and the rules they came up with for their games (however influenced they all were by an international fad at the time for sports codification) were devised here. And given that they're forever being slagged for their lack of a bona fide international dimension, I think it's safe to say 'no Ireland, no GAA'.

INSOFAR as there can be foreign games and native games in the barmy context of nineteenth-century codifications their position, therefore, would surely be that they are not them.

As terminology goes, 'foreign' is outmoded, to say the least; as a distinction, it's now useless and does those who make it no favours. But I can sort of see where they're coming from if they want to cling on to the fact that of the games associations in Ireland, they are one of the homegrown ones.

I'm not sure how widely used the term 'foreign' is any more or what status it has in that pesky GAA Rule Book in any case.

The rule remains. It makes the GAA more a fascist organistation than a pesky one.

**kingdom hoop** · 17/12/2007, 1:19 AM

Originally Posted by Billy Lord

I just find it odd that a sport that has deeper roots in Ireland than gaelic football can be described by the GAA as 'foreign'.

In 2007 it certainly does seem odd. But if you understand the origins then it appears less odd. Unfortunately the anachronistic term has survived to this day, perpetuated by the true Irishmen of this country. (sarcasm, don't worry!) The term was not formulated yesterday, rather, 120 years ago, at a time when the cultural identity of the island was slowly but surely dissipating.

The GAA was founded with some noble aims, however, its commendable ethos was hijacked to a large degree in order to stoke nationalistic fires. The very game of Gaeilc football itself was created as a vehicle for national identity, a bashtardised mix of soccer and rugby promoted as an indigenous substitute for those awful foreign games. At the time I don't think I'd have had much issue with that (given the good intention of differentiating our culture), but in this day in age it pains me to see sport-loving people in the GAA continue to wage a senseless sepia-tinged war on so-called foreign games.

The majority of people involved in the GAA have no issue with soccer, but, much like a lot of those who follow Celtic for the wrong reasons, many within the organisation continue to see it as their duty to suppress 'foreign' games in an effort to propel Ireland's patriotism. Nowhere in the world comes close to rivalling the small nation syndrome we have. It's a broader cultural complex that we seem to have, something that should have been left go yonks ago but one must realise that while politics and sport shouldn't be mixed in this day in age, once upon a time they were. It is far from an excuse, but it helps explain the way things are, the way certain fcuking retards think, and how we can begin to move forward.

This is a huge can of worms and I could go on all day but I don't think this thread is the place for it. All I'd ask is that the use of 'fascist' and 'bigoted' be appreciated as being more matter of fact than pejorative. That way I think the problems in the GAA would be illustrated a lot clearer than just putting it down to simple bigotry, so that we can put aside the tetchy bickering and try to promote a more harmonious sporting landscape.

Argh, thinking about all this makes me so fcuking angry! Time for a joint and a nice soothing song I think.

**HulaHoop** · 17/12/2007, 1:32 AM

Great post Kingdom Hoop.

**sniffa** · 17/12/2007, 2:14 AM

Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

Argh, thinking about all this makes me so fcuking angry! Time for a joint and a nice soothing song I think.

Does this "joint" contain an irish substance or is it best described as "foreign".
If so, it should be banned.....

BTW, great post!

**kingdom hoop** · 17/12/2007, 2:27 AM

Originally Posted by sniffa

Does this "joint" contain an irish substance or is it best described as "foreign".

Well it's green at least!

edit; just looking at that post again, it would be a lot more at home on a GAA forum, I'll sort that out in due course. But it's no harm for everyone to appreciate the unique sporting fabric (ie the interrelation of politics, culture and sport) we have in this country. I suppose time might be a great healer but for some reason I think it has been swept under collective consciousness' carpet, brushed off by saying 'shur politics and sport have nothing to do with each other.' The sad fact is that in this country they have, and ignoring that point only serves to embed the problems, to the detriment of sport, and serving to increase my (someone who passionately supports his county, and played Gaelic football for 14 years, loving every second) disdain for the GAA as an organisation. Harumph.

**Calcio Jack** · 17/12/2007, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Mind nobody gets hurt when the chip falls off that shoulder

And a happy Christmas to you to...

**kingdomkerry** · 17/12/2007, 10:17 AM

How did this tread stray from Rovers winning a judicial review to a soccer v football issue? Personally i love both sports and dont see why someone involved in one sport has to hate the other.

**WoodquayBoy** · 17/12/2007, 11:58 AM

Congrats Rovers, delighted for ye, sure ye can't wait for The Foundations so ye can be built up, Buttercups (groan, I'm sorry)

No surrender to the GAA

**bigmac** · 17/12/2007, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by deFaoite

Teams renting grounds off local authorities is very common elsewhere. In Ireland this concept seems strange for some reason.

Ahem...

On another note - an every cloud sort of note - the lack of use of the stadium since the pitch was laid means that it has had plenty of time to really bed in and develop properly as a surface - it looks fantastic from the road and hopefully it'll be like a carpet to play on.

**Erstwhile B�z** · 17/12/2007, 3:43 PM

Originally Posted by bigmac

Ahem...

On another note - an every cloud sort of note - the lack of use of the stadium since the pitch was laid means that it has had plenty of time to really bed in and develop properly as a surface - it looks fantastic from the road and hopefully it'll be like a carpet to play on.

It does look absolutely beautiful, all right. Even people I know who'd have no interest in the story behind it, or even in football, have mentioned the fact that the surface itself looks so immaculate with the half-started stadium around it.

(Hope they play utter crap on it, obviously.)

**DvB** · 17/12/2007, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Erstwhile B�z

(Hope they play utter crap on it, obviously.)

Well once a season anyway, when you lot come to play there, afterall Bohs can aptly be describes as being such a thing...

Koh

**Buller** · 17/12/2007, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

How did this tread stray from Rovers winning a judicial review to a soccer v football issue?

No it's a football v gaelic handball issue...

**Juanace** · 17/12/2007, 5:59 PM

This is really great news for the LOI not just Rovers. Well done for the effort and perseverence in getting it through. I wont get started laying into TD cause everything has already been said.

Whats the longterm plan for the stadium - 2 stands either side of the pitch, any planned for behind the goals or is that just to be standing area? I've read its to be a 10,000 seater stadium, is that just a pipe dream or will that happen?

**Buller** · 17/12/2007, 6:37 PM

Originally Posted by Juanace

This is really great news for the LOI not just Rovers. Well done for the effort and perseverence in getting it through. I wont get started laying into TD cause everything has already been said.

Whats the longterm plan for the stadium - 2 stands either side of the pitch, any planned for behind the goals or is that just to be standing area? I've read its to be a 10,000 seater stadium, is that just a pipe dream or will that happen?

I feel like I've said this a thousand times but how and ever. Two stands will be completed initially the lengths of the pitch. Hold 3,000 each bringing capacity to 6,000, the extent of current planning permission. Additional planning permission must then be sought to extend the stands around in a circular fashion the ends of the pitch (2,000 each end) to increase it to 10,000. I have pictures which illustrate this perfectly. The pipeline dream is a second tier, to which the foundations being built have been designed to support.

EDIT: found them...