I've gone Mac and Im not going back!
As I say, we're just young & a bit nieve.
I cant believe so many people are recommending macs - buy an overpriced system running on underpowered hardware and suffer all the incompatibility problems as if you just installed linux?
I've been using ubuntu for nearly a year now, and I've never used anti-virus. Rather than using some 3rd party software that bloats up and uses memory, I just install the update that comes any time a security hole is found - there is a reason most web servers run on linux.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Overpriced I'll give you, they are still pricey but you pay for the look, but underpowered? No point comparing clock speed with a PC, its apples and oranges.Originally Posted by GavinZac
Also, incompatibility? What incompatibility?
Have you ever owned one? Bear in mind most of the above Mac recommenders have owned PCs in the past (myself included) so we have a basis for comparison.
Fine, you like being different (umbongo?) but come back with real comparisons!
Underpowered, for what you're paying. They're 2 sides of the same coin really. Pay for the look? Pay hundreds extra for some white plastic casing? really? People buy Mac for the same reason they pay over the odds for an iPod over a generic mp3 player: brand loyalty and buying into a way of feeling good about themselves. Personally I prefer to get what I pay for in terms of components rather than whatever Steve Job's turtleneck has blessed.
Mac has the unique position of not being able to run windows applications (which both linux and, unsurprisingly, windows can) and not having the support of an open source developer community working for it.Also, incompatibility? What incompatibility?
I've used every type of computer, from an Amstrad to Alienware, from Unix to Vista. In college I'm one of the few people who knew how to turn on the Mac in the corner so got to skip the queue for public internet pc's. If anything, not having wasted my money on one means I dont feel the need to defend it.Have you ever owned one? Bear in mind most of the above Mac recommenders have owned PCs in the past (myself included) so we have a basis for comparison.
Ok.Fine, you like being different (umbongo?) but come back with real comparisons!
Cost:
............................. Windows Vista $80, OSX $129, Ubuntu $0
% Compatible s/w:
.....................................90%, 5%, 30%
Current time to boot on this laptop:
....................................2 mins, Doesnt Boot, 45 seconds (inc 3D desktop, optional)
Security:
...................................Poor, Obscure, Unparalleled.
Time to fix holes/bugs:
...............................2 years per service pack & tuesday patches, 2 years per OS release and random updates, 2-3 days on average, 6 month release cycle.
Bootable from CD:
.................................No, No, Yes
Privacy:
.....................................DRM riddled & poor deletion, Good, Good
Open Source support:
.................................Ok, Non existant, Integral
You say I can't make comparisons then make yourself look ignorant by mocking the name of the most installed operating system (non OEM) this year. Well done.
Last edited by GavinZac; 13/12/2007 at 9:33 PM.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
I am still on XP & no plans to change. Hearing a lot of bad things about Vista & some people at work who have Vista have enabled the which back to XP Classic because of Vista pain. Seems 2GB is minimum RAM for Vista. Maybe will be better after SP1...
Dell quality not so great but can't be beaten on price. Then again I have one for over 2 years without problems.
Bootcamp?
Also, in the last 3 years a huge array of apps have had Mac releases. Its reasonably rare now that I either can't get a Mac version of software or there's some kind of Mac clone.
You're obviously a fairly specialised user, but for the vast majority of normal home or small business users a Mac is easier, quicker and more intuitive and reliable than a PC.
Bootcamp is just dual booting, i.e, you need to own and install a copy of windows XP ASWELL as your mac, and then restart the computer any time you want to use a different system's programs. Aswell has having supported that for nigh on a decade, linux has 2 nice little tools called Wine and DOSBox - at first I was using it for any program I missed from windows, but having found free (in all senses of the word) alternatives, I've narrowed it down to games like Half Life 2 for which there are no equivalents, on Linux OR Mac.
I'd love to see some qualification for that. After all, if the vast majority of normal home or small business users would have such an advantage on the mac, why does it enjoy such a tiny, tiny minority? At least Linux has the excuse of being new to the desktop and not having a mega-corp pushing it on people. Macs, in some ways, introduced the desktop 25 years ago - before plummeting and being in the words of Michael Dell only fit for "wrapping things up and giving the cash back to stockholders" pre-iPod. They're enjoying something of an Indian summer with the brand recognition that has given them, and yet they're unable to break the 5% of home users ceiling and even that is having conceded some pricing, selling Microsoft software and using Intel chips. Right now, its just a white label branded version of BSD.Also, in the last 3 years a huge array of apps have had Mac releases. Its reasonably rare now that I either can't get a Mac version of software or there's some kind of Mac clone.
You're obviously a fairly specialised user, but for the vast majority of normal home or small business users a Mac is easier, quicker and more intuitive and reliable than a PC.
Last edited by GavinZac; 13/12/2007 at 9:45 PM.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Gavin you strike me as the kind of person who deserted Linux when it became too mainstream and "sold out". Thats fair enough. There are always people who want to be on the cutting edge.
Most users don't push the boundaries with their computer and I think the fact that all the Mac owners in this thread so far aren't going back to PCs is telling.
Yes Apple are as much a marketing machine as anyone else, but their products work very well for the target audience.
Horses for courses etc.
I agree that the average bebo, ebay and word processing user will probably have far less hassle and problems if they used a Mac over Windows Vista. Mind you, the same would be true of Windows 2000.
What annoys me is the over-pricing. If you're getting a computer that will just do the very basics well, why pay so much over the odds? Its like people are paying extra for less complexity.
That wont last long, and the advent of Linux machines being sold in places like Walmart for as low as $150, like these recent ubuntu machines which go as far as to build the internet services people want right into the desktop.
In fact, I challenge anyone, using a PC or indeed a Mac, to download gOSp or its daddy version, Ubuntu, burn them to a CD, pop it in the drive and reboot. Check out how well the LiveCD works, and then realise the entire OS is running from the cd drive and would be 10 times better from hard drive.
Works fine? Does the job? Perfect for someone just looking for everyday use? and free - What have people been paying hundreds of euros for?!
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Aren't Macs better at running multiple programs, and have some more tailored programs for music and videos, so more film director people and the likes use them? Maybe that's just the PowerMacs. I only say as a friend of mine is into film-making and said that to me!
Personally, I've now had a Dell laptop for over 4 years. A fantastic testament to my fathering skills.
Actually, just thought of it that nearly all DJ's that use computers when DJing use Apples. Gav?!
er, no. "running multiple programs" is determined by the factors of available RAM and multi-threading for processors. Mac would actually be the weakest on this front - there is a reason why servers (computers dedicated to running multiple users aswell as multiple programs) are usually Linux based and sometimes Windows based but never Mac based.
There is a product available for Mac called iMovie which is pretty much the same as Windows Movie Maker - drag and drop clips, etc. This isn't free, however. Very much also non-free is Final Cut Pro which is of course a very good (and very expensive) product and would be fairly popular along with the multi-platform Adobe Premiere. As for having more of these tailored programs, that of course simply isnt true as anyone attempting to create such a program for Mac has to not only contend with the tiny market but also with the existence of the heavy-weights listed above. The plethora of products available for Windows and Linux (for different reasons - one being the most profitable market, the other for being the quickest to develop on) including an entire free "studio" operating system included some very good products but Final Cut Pro would be recognised as the best. However, it would want to be when priced at $1,300 and it would be irrelevant to all but the most dedicated of film students/real world dodgers.and have some more tailored programs for music and videos, so more film director people and the likes use them? Maybe that's just the PowerMacs. I only say as a friend of mine is into film-making and said that to me!
I havent observed that but then I tend to avoid DJs. I cant imagine any reason for that other than to flash-the-cash so to speak. Im pretty certain my toaster can play MP3s with a little modification so I dont see what difference the hardware involved would make to any DJ.Actually, just thought of it that nearly all DJ's that use computers when DJing use Apples. Gav?!
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Sorry I was talking about proper professional DJs, not the ones who just pick a song and double click. They would often tend to make their music live as they go, using a program called Ableton, and invariably such DJs have Apples. I'm sure there's a reason for it beyond the Apple at the back looking cool in the dark, though that in itself is probably reason enough. Probably to do with more logistically friendly hot-keys, if, as you say, non-Macs are smoother operators.
Never heard of it but a quick google shows it being quite good for both windows and mac.
They have virtually identical keyboards though, so I cant see that having an effect. What I would say, attempting not to sound like some conspiracy theorist, is that if it is artists like Sasha then its quite likely a freebie from Apple - ever noticed the sheer number of Apple products in tv, movies and music videos? An important part of any small market share company with high revenue is keeping its product relevant - apple do this by handing out MacBooks. (see here and here).I'm sure there's a reason for it beyond the Apple at the back looking cool in the dark, though that in itself is probably reason enough. Probably to do with more logistically friendly hot-keys, if, as you say, non-Macs are smoother operators.
Of course, even Linux is getting one or two product placements these days, featuring on Heroes
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Fair enough, I'll ask some of my DJ friends and see if there are any good reasons.
Apple really has been a remarkable branding success story. Fair fcuks to Steve Jobs, clever guy. Looks like Gavin is on a crusade to put an end to it all though.
I totally agree. As a marketing student, this guy is like a god. He really knows how to increase a product's perceived value. Im writing a glowing report on him as part of my masters course on business strategy.Apple really has been a remarkable branding success story. Fair fcuks to Steve Jobs, clever guy. Looks like Gavin is on a crusade to put an end to it all though.
However, as a life long geek, it frustrates me no end that people through sheer ignorance continue to line the pockets of companies who do very little to further the advance of technology's usefulness or value. When you have computers on sale for $150 and people are instead choosing to spend $1500 on something to do the exact same thing, it breeds laziness in the corporations and furthers the fear/begrudging people have towards these machines which cost the earth and are liable to break down with no point in repair.
Funnily, Microsoft tried to be Apple with its Zune's and Vista, and Apple is trying to be Microsoft by turning away from hardware and whoring its software to the highest bidders. In the midst of all this, computers are no more easy to use than 5 or even 10 years ago, it is the internet that is driving adoption.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Make sure to mention how his charismatic personality permeated the organisation and its products. Such intangible factors have powered Apple's success. To the point where they only offer a derisory ten days credit.
Also, how ironic in the so-called Information Age that people will pay ten times the price for what apparently are very similar machines. The adage of sex sells is never far away I guess.
I must admit though, that for all Jobs'Make sure to mention how his charismatic personality permeated the organisation and its products. Such intangible factors have powered Apple's success. To the point where they only offer a derisory ten days credit.demonic mind controlmarket savie, I much more readily identify with Steve Ballmer. The idea that this lunatic super-nerd is one of the richest men in the world fills me with hope, even if he is working for the enemy
Last edited by GavinZac; 14/12/2007 at 1:27 AM.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
I think I'll try do that every morning after gettin out of bed, it's gotta be a great way to start the day.
I do a lot of graphic design and Digital art and have to say the MAC is far superior. It's been the industry standard for Donkeys years anyway
What exactly is superior about it?
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
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