Hypocrisy

**stann** · 07/12/2007, 12:06 PM

I'm declaring meself with the Atheist Front too, and see no problem with following a few quaint traditions at Christmas that, for me, are just that - quaint traditions. No problem in loving Christmas because it's the family / friends / feel-good vibe that I love, and most of the Christmas traditions that we observe, from mince pies to Coca-Cola coloured Santas, are secular in origin anyway.

As the g/f is moderately religious I forsee partaking in several Christian ceremonies in the future which I have no problem with as it'll be for her. I'll hardly have her convinced in that short a space of time.

To be honest, there's many more hypocrisies involving the church you could be getting worked up about. I had typed a few out, but that argument is for another time.

Oh, and we're not all Celt by the way, surprisingly few of us are. There's a similar level of Viking blood here, for example, and rather a lot more Anglo-Saxon.

**paul_oshea** · 07/12/2007, 12:09 PM

Oh, and we're not all Celt by the way, surprisingly few of us are. There's a similar level of Viking blood here, for example, and rather a lot more Anglo-Saxon.

Didnt go that far forward, but ya, we're definitely not as inbred as we once thought. That comment was silly to start with anyway.

**Macy** · 07/12/2007, 12:43 PM

The vikings had Yule. If it's going to be about which pagan festival were replaced.

**superfrank** · 07/12/2007, 12:54 PM

I honestly don't see Christmas as a religious holiday anymore. I think of it as more of a public holiday, like Halloween or St. Patrick's Day (surley that's another load of Christian hypocrisy but that's for another time).

I enjoy Christmas cause I get presents and I get to see my family for a few days which I doesn't happen that often as my brothers and sister have left home.

I think Christmas is more of a marketing ploy these days. The religion part is long gone.

A lot like society. I don't know anyone my age who goes to mass week-in, week-out and who is a strong Catholic. People who DO are the only people I will let give out to me about Catholicism. Lapsed Catholics who whinge annoy the hell out of me.

For the record, I was very religious up until I was 14. I finally realised and understood the extent of the whole priest abuse scandals and how blinkered some lay people were. I didn't want to become one of those people and I couldn't trust any priests enough to convince me to change my mind.

POS, I do agree with you on church weddings though.

**pete** · 07/12/2007, 12:54 PM

Non story. As mentioned already the advert was not banned by RTE.

I find Christmas offends my alcoholic atheist beliefs. I cannot purchase alcohol on December 25.

Maybe that is why Coca Cola sponsored the festival?

**paul_oshea** · 07/12/2007, 1:00 PM

I find Christmas offends my alcoholic atheist beliefs. I cannot purchase alcohol on December 25. Maybe that is why Coca Cola sponsored the festival?

ah ye can, if ye really want

But, btw, I never knew you were a person who doesn't believe there is such a thing as alcoholics. You learn something knew everyday.

I enjoy Christmas cause I get presents and I get to see my family for a few days which I doesn't happen that often as my brothers and sister have left home.

I think Christmas is more of a marketing ploy these days. The religion part is long gone.

See thats where we are going to end up, like yankiville "happy holidays"

I have to say the more of kevin myers that I read the more I agree with.

**Lim till i die** · 07/12/2007, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

People on this forum, and in Ireland generaly now are affront to the power the church has in this day and age. ...

The church has power in this day and age

They castigate the church

*whispers* It's because of all the evil stuff.

xmas etc is still the biggest phenomenon in Eire

Not like all those xmas hating countries out foriegn.

and women ( along with their husbands, many included on this forum I'm sure )

On behalf of the women on this forum, I'm offended

still crave the "big church wedding".

Of course they do. It's a traditional and above all pretty setting.

Religion doesn't come into it my dear fellow.

This hypocrisy really winds me up

Swiftly followed by:

I go to mass nearly every week

It's just non church hypocrisy that bothers you I take it??

but it wouldn't bother me if I didnt get married in the church

See now that's just your opinion and doesn't really have any relevance to any of ours.

yet those who dont go assume its their "god" given right to have their big lovely day in the church

Look, aslong as I tip the vicar or the priest a few quid into his hat I should be allowed get married wherever the hell I want.

It's a lovely setting with lots of seating capacity....perfect.

Wouldn't be very Christian to ruin my wifes big day over a dusty old book now would it??

If the church are going to get snotty about who can and can't use their land may I suggest the government taking it back.

but yet when it suits will be the first on the bandwagon to complain about the church.

Damn those common sense bandwagons!! Damn them!!

**strangeirish** · 07/12/2007, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Magicme

I dont got to mass. When I got married it was a civil cermony on the beach in Barbados. I didn't want to baptise my children but pressure from family caved me in. I gave my kids the choice if they wanted to make their 1st communion & confirmation. They choose to do so mainly coz everyone in their class was doing it and didnt want to be left out.

For me Christmas stopped being religious 14 yrs ago and now it is an amazingly beautiful time when my family (including my aunt & uncle from holland, granny, other aunt, her kids and their kids) all descend on my parents home and we have the time of our lives together. It is a few days where we put our busy lives aside and really really enjoy each others company. The presents and food are secondary to the love that is in the house on that day.

Its a tradition borne out of a religious event but the religion plays no place in it anymore for me. Like Macy, I would like to see it back to the truer tradition of celebrating that you are still alive and have family in the dead of winter.

I like it! Peace.

**mypost** · 07/12/2007, 3:40 PM

The whole white wedding is really one of those madwomen ideas they insist on. I don't think many men care where it is, tbh. For a bloke, getting married is a simple operation. Propose to her, and turn up in the church on time, not causing a drama. Women spend decades planning the day, with military precision. From the dress, to the cake, to the family members, to the invites, to the location, to the reception, to the honeymoon, etc. One thing they pay least attention to is the cost. While she wants no expense spared, he's thinking, how in the name of Christ am I going to afford/pay it off??

I do agree it's hypocritical to have it in a church, when by choice, you only go there once every year/five years. I wouldn't care where mine would be, at the end of the day, big or small budget, mansion or shed, the ceremony is all the same.

**pete** · 07/12/2007, 5:09 PM

I think the Catholic church in Ireland has started to become irrelevant. Maybe new religions will replace it but while 90% might officially belong I guess even the weekly mass goers is in the minority. Other churches not large enough to make a difference.

I suppose the biggest impact the churches have is in primary schools as due to historical circumstances they run/control those schools.

**Noelys Guitar** · 07/12/2007, 7:19 PM

Whats a church?

**Lim till i die** · 07/12/2007, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Whats a church?

World Famous Church

**Noelys Guitar** · 08/12/2007, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

World Famous Church

How does one go about joining this church? I want to get inside the confessional box.

**micls** · 08/12/2007, 11:09 AM

Superfrank sums it up well for me.

I am an atheist, but adore Christmas. For me its a holiday and has never really been a religious occasion. 2 weeks off work, presets, food, relaxing, family. What's there not to celebrate? I celebrate it as a holiday

Saying that what I do find hypocritical is those who don't see a church for the rest of the year but turn up on Christmas day, and pretend to care about the religious aspect of it. Saying that, leave them off. If it helps them enjoy the season then what harm.

Also Im another woman who would have no interest whatsoever in getting married in a church, never have but a lot of the reason being I dont like the whole big occasion thing.Some hot country on a beach please. This works as my partner is an atheist too.

If i was with someone who wanted a Church wedding I'd probably cave.

Would that make me a hypocrite? Maybe but it would mean their burning in hell for marrying a heathen so leave them enjoy the day.

**beautifulrock** · 08/12/2007, 11:57 AM

I find this discussion quite amusing, what we have here is the religous equivelant of the barstooler the "Hosanna Hosanna" crowd

. We only go to Church for the big games (weddings) not interested in the rest thank you.

**bennocelt** · 08/12/2007, 7:06 PM

got the old catholic upbringing and all that.........but hate all religions.......
Myself? I got married, no church wedding, no ring, small party and that was that........and still happily married.

Ireland is still a very catholic country..........we try to pretend we aren't and look all modern and liberal, but jeez when that bloody relic was here from France how crazy did the country go, thousands were touching the dead body, and what about the live show on Sean Brady the new cardinal

Ireland: FF, The Church, GAA..............thats the holy trinity

**pete** · 09/12/2007, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by micls

Saying that what I do find hypocritical is those who don't see a church for the rest of the year but turn up on Christmas day, and pretend to care about the religious aspect of it.

I agree. No doubt some people go to be seen there & others enjoy the atmosphere at the event. Makes the event junkie analogy very apt.

Even in Ireland Christmas has long since been a holiday & little religious aspect left.

**Raheny Red** · 09/12/2007, 6:22 PM

What pishes me off the most is the large majority of people who get their child baptised and don't even practice the religion.

**micls** · 09/12/2007, 6:38 PM

Originally Posted by Raheny Red

What pishes me off the most is the large majority of people who get their child baptised and don't even practice the religion.

For a lot of people it's seen as a tradition ad an excuse for a party celebrating the birth. Now personally I wouldn't do it but I cant say much.

I'm a godmother despite being atheist. It was before I had completely given up on religion but even then it wasn't seen as a religious thing by the parents, it was them saying I trust you to look after the child with and for us.

It's hard in a country as religious as traditional as we are to be different. Even though I wouldn't christen my child my family wouldn't understand it, grandparents etc. Id say a lot of people just do it to keep relatives happy and for the day out.

**Macy** · 10/12/2007, 7:50 AM

Originally Posted by Raheny Red

What pishes me off the most is the large majority of people who get their child baptised and don't even practice the religion.

You have to in many areas to make sure they get into the local (state) school.

btw the type of hypcrites that get on my tits are the type that will diss none believers, but then have no problem breaking other Church rules. They'll say so and so shouldn't get married in a church, but have no problem using contraception (for example) when it's specifically outlawed by the church. These types of the real hypocrites - get on their high horse about others when they're a la carte themselves...