Cup Final Match Thread

**amaccann** · 03/12/2007, 8:14 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong,but aren't Longford in Europe anyway as Cork finished 4th in the league?

Confused of Tunbridge Wells.

**Flume** · 03/12/2007, 8:22 AM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

RT�'s institutionalised minnowism to the fore again in yesterday's coverage. It sickens me to see them practically spunking over Kevin Doyle when half their sports department couldn't have picked him out of a line-up three years ago. And reading out the FA Cup Third Round fixtures at half-time in a domestic cup final? Who gives a ****? Not half the teams that play in it!

Thought it was ridiculous alright. All 3 of the other lads falling all over him.It was cringeworthy! And as for the english fixtures...

Thought the game was a decent game. Longfod flew out of the traps but couldn't get the goal when they were on top. Baker going off seemed to be the turning point and in the end it was a deserved cork win.

As for the cork jersey...

Its horrible!!The crest is MASSIVE!!!!

**elroy** · 03/12/2007, 9:00 AM

wasnt a great game, cork shouldve won by more but considering the attendance was down abotu 50% on the last time Cork played in the final, the FAI really need to consider scheduling the game earlier in the year. The rds is a good venue but the conditions were very poor yesterday and there's no doubt people looked out their window yesterday morning and decided against going.

**rebelarmyexile** · 03/12/2007, 9:04 AM

Whats happening with Rico??? Very confuddedled

**WoodquayBoy** · 03/12/2007, 9:20 AM

Congrats Cork, and a nice goal to win the thing with

**Dodge** · 03/12/2007, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

All clubs have to get set up at some point in-time, and many change colour, stadiums etc etc. My own club have changed colours 3 times, for example.

The majority of clubs in our league worked theuir way up to league standard. Cork City wa sset up as the league wanted a club in cork. Thats my definition of a franchise.

The main difference between a franchise systemn of sport and that which we have inn Europe is that the license to participate can be bought, sold and moved by the same people. Arkaga bought Cork City FC as a company. They didn't buy a license to have a team in the EL. Therefore, they can't move that license form Cork to any other place to set-up a different team if they wanted to (as happens in franchised sports structures like in America, and as Pete Winkleman did with Wimbledon).

You've obviously no clue about US sports. For a team to move they need the full backing of every other team in the league, and the league itself. They can't just decide to do it. And your point about Arkaga not moving Cork is ridiculous too. Do you think the Yankees will ever leave New York? Have you forgotten that the new FAI rules mean the holder of the club license is the holding company and not the club?

read the cork forum is you want more details on far fast Cork is moving away form a club and into a franchise

**sonofstan** · 03/12/2007, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

Whats happening with Rico??? Very confuddedled

Second this: can someone post up what's meant to be going on....

**MyTown** · 03/12/2007, 10:44 AM

Aertel's use of the word 'just' whne referring to the crowd took away from their report and their general service to the League over the season IMO. As others have posted, I thought 10k was a great turnout for the day that was in it, with both the weather and Christmas Shopping being negative factors.

Criticising the FAI is a daily pastitme for many posters here, but criticising them for the scheudling shows how one sided most of the debate has become.

Are they now also responsible for apalling weather conditions on top of all their other faults?

The big gripe I'd have is leaving the paying punters outside up to 2.30. Whoever was in charge of Facilities Management has a lot to answer for there IMO...but then again, I always like to be in time for a game.

Well done Cork, Well done Rico, Hard Luck Longford.

**Partizan** · 03/12/2007, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

All clubs have to get set up at some point in-time, and many change colour, stadiums etc etc. My own club have changed colours 3 times, for example.

The main difference between a franchise systemn of sport and that which we have inn Europe is that the license to participate can be bought, sold and moved by the same people. Arkaga bought Cork City FC as a company. They didn't buy a license to have a team in the EL. Therefore, they can't move that license form Cork to any other place to set-up a different team if they wanted to (as happens in franchised sports structures like in America, and as Pete Winkleman did with Wimbledon).

Nothing new here. Up to the early 1960s we predominantly played in white jerseys and blue shorts before adopting the present playing format of all blue for the 1964-65 season. Call it a rebranding but it sure worked. Hence the nickname, "the Blues" which comes from this time. Clubs do it the whole time.

It is not the franchise that Arkaga have bought into but as steve said, the licence, that licence to run senior football in Cork. Arkaga can rebrand CCFC (crest, colours etc.) but it will still be the same club, just a change of marketing and business direction.

**dcfcsteve** · 03/12/2007, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

The majority of clubs in our league worked theuir way up to league standard. Cork City wa sset up as the league wanted a club in cork. Thats my definition of a franchise.

You could say exactly the same about Limerick 37. Also with Institute in the north, as the IFA/Irish League wanted a club from Derry.

And then there's Wexford Youths and Kildare County. Teams with roots/links into junior/intermediate sides, but who were set-up as new clubs with new names to fill a league space. But I don't see you bandying the term 'franchise' any further than at Cork City's door step...

Anyways - so what if the FAI/League wanted a club in Cork. Of course they should feckin do so. Everyone on this site spends reams of times on threads about where we should ideally have the next EL teams based. What most reasonable people would call common sense, you have to deride as franchising.

If it makes you feel happier to call Cork City a franchise, then knock yourself out fella.

Originally Posted by Dodge

You've obviously no clue about US sports. For a team to move they need the full backing of every other team in the league, and the league itself. They can't just decide to do it. And your point about Arkaga not moving Cork is ridiculous too. Do you think the Yankees will ever leave New York? Have you forgotten that the new FAI rules mean the holder of the club license is the holding company and not the club?

The wise old sage has spoken.....

As you're the self-proclaimed expert, please tell me the last time a team that wanted to move franchise in the US was prevented from doing so (and not just temporarily) by the governing body and/or other teams ?

As for do I think the Yankess will ever leave New York :

Yeah - like a major American sports team has never left New York before....!

Do you think the Jets and/or Giants wil ever leave New York Dodge ??
Or more aptly, do you think the Dodgers will ever leave Brooklyn.

Whilst I'm at it :

Do you ever think the Redskins will leave Boston ? No, wait.....!

Do you think the Colts will ever leave Baltimore ? No, wait...!

Do you think the Oilers will ever leave Houston. No wait....!

Do you think the Rams will ever leave Cleveland. No, wait...!

Or do you think the Rams will then ever leave their new home in LA ? No, wait again..!

Do you think the Cardinals will ever leave Chicago. No wait...!

Or do you think the Cardinals will then ever leave their new home in St Louis ? No, wait again.....!

That doesn't even scratch the surface of the type of club promiscuity that happens under a franchise-based sports system. And you claim I'm the one who knows nothing about US sport......

We do not have a franchise system in Irish football. Your dislike of Cork City and/or the way in which the club is changing does not magically turn our system of sports administration into a franchise-based one. And especially not just because you say it is.

**Dodge** · 03/12/2007, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You could say exactly the same about Limerick 37. Also with Institute in the north, as the IFA/Irish League wanted a club from Derry.

And then there's Wexford Youths and Kildare County. Teams with roots/links into junior/intermediate sides, but who were set-up as new clubs with new names to fill a league space. But I don't see you bandying the term 'franchise' any further than at Cork City's door step...

Only because we're not taking about those teams. Every example you use is a franchise. Kildare at least formed form Newbridge but I'd still class them as a franchise.

Anyways - so what if the FAI/League wanted a club in Cork. Of course they should feckin do so. Everyone on this site spends reams of times on threads about where we should ideally have the next EL teams based. What most reasonable people would call common sense, you have to deride as franchising.

No, you inferred that I look down on franchises. I couldn't give a toss if they were set up to join the league or whether they came up through the MSl

If it makes you feel happier to call Cork City a franchise, then knock yourself out fella.

Again, i don't care one way or another, I was just pointing out the facts

The wise old sage has spoken.....

yep, and once again you've totally missed my point as you look to argue. i stated the facts, you somehow thought I gave an opinion on it. and you decided, as usual, to spout reams and reams about something.

As you're the self-proclaimed expert, please tell me the last time a team that wanted to move franchise in the US was prevented from doing so (and not just temporarily) by the governing body and/or other teams ?

Buffalo have wanted to move to Toronto for years. Houston texans wanted to move to LA but were denied. The Texas Rangers were stopped from moving to San Antonio.

Whilst I'm at it ...

please give an example of a succesful club moving eithout the backing of their governing body please

And you claim I'm the one who knows nothing about US sport......

Yes, as proven by your pathetic attempts to discredit my point about teams not being able to move without the backing of their league. Unless you still think that to be the case?

[quote]We do not have a franchise system in Irish football. [quote]
Agreed. Some clubs are set up to fill a need for the FAi to have aa club in that geographical area. I call that a franchise. You yourself used the MK Dons as an example of a franchise. Are you saying that the English ffotball league operate a franchise system? or do you agree that franchises exist in a non Franchise system?

Your dislike of Cork City and/or the way in which the club is changing does not magically turn our system of sports administration into a franchise-based one. And especially not just because you say it is.

My dislike of cork has nothing got to do with the fact that they were set up as a franchise and have been bought by a management company who within months have changed the club's crest and home colours. Once agin you've inferred that I'm against the use of franchises in this country. Which I'm not, but then you only ever read what you want to read steve.

As I don't want this to end up in yet another one of your 8 page arguments, this will be my last post on this topic.

**OneRedArmy** · 03/12/2007, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by MyTown

Criticising the FAI is a daily pastitme for many posters here, but criticising them for the scheudling shows how one sided most of the debate has become.

Are they now also responsible for apalling weather conditions on top of all their other faults?

By dint of scheduling the Cup Final when poor weather is almost guaranteed, yes, they are responsible. Look at the last two years to see what I mean.

Who says the cup has to be at the end of the season?!

In mitigation, thought the RDS was a good venue. Pitch held up very well.

**micls** · 03/12/2007, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

By dint of scheduling the Cup Final when poor weather is almost guaranteed, yes, they are responsible. Look at the last two years to see what I mean.

Who says the cup has to be at the end of the season?!

October weekend

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

In mitigation, thought the RDS was a good venue. Pitch held up very well.

Pitch held up well but too big, and too open. Disaster for atmosphere.

Honestly would have preferred Tolka or Dalymount. At least then there might have been a bit of buzz, scramble for tickets etc.

The fact it was in the RDS turned a good few sunshiners off

**R�iteoir** · 03/12/2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by sonofstan

A sort of related anecdote - I was working at the Interpol gig yesterday and was having lunch when one of the security guys asked one of my colleagues 'what time is the match at?' thinking he meant the cup final - taiking place about a 100yrds away- I butted in with '3.30' guy looks at me indulgently (they know I'm mad and follow local football) and says 'no,no, I mean our football, the United match' ........

Was he English?

If not he needed to be taken outside and given a good seeing to

**Dodge** · 03/12/2007, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by micls

Honestly would have preferred Tolka or Dalymount. At least then there might have been a bit of buzz, scramble for tickets etc.

The fact it was in the RDS turned a good few sunshiners off

You think Tolka or Dalymount is a more attractive option? Seriously? Have you seen the state of those grounds recently (bar the excellent Jodi)? not to mention that the RDS will only be visited for cup finals unlike multiple trips to dalymount/Tolka

**micls** · 03/12/2007, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

You think Tolka or Dalymount is a more attractive option? Seriously? Have you seen the state of those grounds recently (bar the excellent Jodi)? not to mention that the RDS will only be visited for cup finals unlike multiple trips to dalymount/Tolka

Yes Ive been in both this season and would have preferred either. As would a lot of the people I was discussing it with yesterday. A full ground creates a buzz a good atmosphere and a better build up.

**Dodge** · 03/12/2007, 12:25 PM

But presumably they were people who all went to the game. I just can't see how it would be more attractive to floating voters (while accepting your point that a tighter ground helps atmosphere0

**micls** · 03/12/2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

But presumably they were people who all went to the game. I just can't see how it would be more attractive to floating voters (while accepting your point that a tighter ground helps atmosphere0

Imo there would have been more of a buzz around the city leading up to the game.As it was never going to be a sell out people werent too bothered.

Cork people anyway love to be able to say I was there that night, when there seems to be a shortage of tickets.

It would have been roughly the same crowd, a better atmosphere and roofed...

**Schumi** · 03/12/2007, 12:32 PM

It looked about half full to me, the people behind the Longford goal and along the uncovered side would probably have filled the gaps behind the Cork goal and in the roofed stand. Is that 9,000?

The problem with the RDS is the lack of a roof anywhere but the Anglesea Stand. I bought tickets for the 'Grandstand' thinking they were for the Anglesea Stand. Had I known, I wouldn't have bought them because there's no roof over there. As it happened, I just walked into the Anglesea Stand before kick off anyway so it didn't matter but I'm sure lots of people were put off by the rain because most of the ground has no roof. I thought more tickets would have been sold beforehand though.

**dcfcsteve** · 03/12/2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

My dislike of cork has nothing got to do with the fact that they were set up as a franchise and have been bought by a management company who within months have changed the club's crest and home colours.

I doubt the vast majority of posters on here would be willing to agree with what you call a Franchise. It's a question of semantics and definitions, so we'll agree to leave it there.