obey the odds - sh1te.
Last edited by bholg; 30/11/2007 at 9:16 AM. Reason: poor memory regarding well known advertising slogans
I'm totally undecided about Haan, but if any kind of campaign can be orchestrated to get a decent candidate (or more than one) into the public frame against a seemingly one way tide then that's fine by me. I actually emailed Mullan last night, more in search of information than anything else.
I do think there is more anti-Tel opinion now being voiced. I thought Dunphy's performance on TV was spot on, Giles was less convincing but had done less research.
Dunphy's was a classic polemic. He ignored all positives and accentuated the negatives. Giles was more realistic: Venables has a reputation as a good coach, this is a view from people he trusts, however his commitment is weak to say the least.Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'd like to see the records of the other candidates exposed to the same level of analysis.
The problem is with Dunphy is that as said earlier he is a polemicist. Even the odd time he happens to be right like here with the Venerables thing he spoils it.
He starts off by making valid points, building a good arguement, then ruins the whole thing by making crazy over the to accusations. Spoils all his good work snd undermines the position of more reasonable people who agree with him
Other candidates have had the records scrutinised here.
My gripe with Venables has been long held, since long before he was ever touted as a candidate to replace Kerr, let alone Stan.
His record has been mediocre, littered with failures, his successes were a long time ago, and I query the objectiveness of those who support him. His personal probity is questionable to say the least. Giles adds that his dedication to the role is a risk.
I accept that Dunphy sought to downplay the Dutch 4-1 victory and I'd also say that Australia's concession of 2 late goals to Iran was in no small part down to an idiot who got the game halted for a long period because he parachuted into the goalposts!
Hodgson's record was scrutinised here and stacks up well.
I honestly think that even if Venables had been a resounding success recently I'd still feel aggrieved by his nomination. Put it this way, if I had his track record I would be legally disqualified from doing the job I do now.
The business stuff is irrelevant. Brian Clough was as dodgy if not more so, but he was also the best British manager of all time.
I'm not saying Venables is the messiah but I think he is one of a number of candidates who passes the basic qualifications. I agree Hodgson does too, but I feel not enough is made of the fact that when given major club jobs he has been unsuccesful. Also his only experience with 'British' style players is not great.
Souness is as we know a row waiting to happen. He managed to alienate the only good player Newcastle had (Bellamy). I cant believe Dunphy really thinks he would be a good manager, yes he won 11 trophies but most of these were at Rangers and at the time that was a one horse race.
Lads, there's a seperate thread to talk about Venables and another general thread on the new manager. It's getting confusing.
Feck it, just give the Job to Dunphy, that will shut him up!
Més Que Un Club - More than a Club
dunphy is right....why should we sell ourselve short...
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
There was another piece from Fanning in the SIndo, this time on Arie Haan on the cover of the Sports section, it's not online though.
So here it is:
Mods, if you believe I shouldn't be posting this for copyright (or any other) reasons, my apologies and please remove.
Haan claims he'll make Ireland an overnight success
DION FANNING
He is the surprise contender for the Ireland job and is promising a break from the past. Last night Arie Haan offered further evidence that he is different than most managers by insisting that he doesn't[sic] need time to be a success.
Playing to his strength, Haan, who has managed 14 clubs during a 23-year career in management and only one for longer than two years, promised to have an immediate impact on Irish football.
"Everywhere I go I make the teams better in a quick period. There are coaches who always say 'Give me time, give me time. You have to give me time'. I said always, I don't need time because in a short time I can make a team because I have a good eye and more experience than most. But then maybe people expect too much because you go so quickly to a certain level."
He is attracted to the Irish job because he believes it offers a chance to work without interference.
"I want always the best and a lot of people have their own ego. In Europe we don't always have the position of 'The Manager'. There is always one man beside you who knows better, who wants different players and is not involved directly in the team. In England, the decisions are your responsibility. In Europe, that is not the case, they give you players you don't want, they interefere, they are not happy with their own decisions, but always the coach is the stupid guy."
Haan is backed by a team of Irish agents based in the Far East and has tapped into the discontent felt by some about the emergence of Terry Venables as the favourite. They have cleverly positioned Hann as a break with the past and the conventional English thinking personified by Venables.
"It is thime to create a Haan dynasty" his agent Mark McMullan said on Friday.
Haan was kinder about Venables, but believes it is to Europe Irish football must now look.
"Venables did a lot of good things in his life, of course, there's nothing to say against him. What is important is that he is English thinking, he is from England and maybe it would be a time to think a little different. We have a lot of things we learned in Holland which brought a lot of clubs and countries success when he joined it with their mentality. Only fools never change their minds."
Speaking from Stuttgart, Haan outlined his vision for the Irish team which he was first interested in managing two years ago. He believes it is essential to bring Stephen Ireland back into the side.
"Ireland is a problem not, but I don't think he is a problem for the future. He told a story, he said that his grandmothers had died, these are words you don't use. But I don't think it will be a big problem."
Stressing his record in developing young players, Haan promised to continue the youth policy brought in under Staunton.
"I have worked with the best coaches ever, Rinus Michels and Stefan Kovacs at Ajax. They were winners, they played to win, they gave you the virus to win. I like to work with young players, to give them the chance and to trust them. I think young players give a team more spirit because sometime the old players like to have it a little bit easy."
At Stuttgart, Haan worked with a young Jurgen Klinsmann, later he would play a role in developing the careers of Marc Wilmots and Giovanni Van Bronkhurst, a player he worked with at Feyenoord, where he also encountered David Connolly. "I was only with him for a few months, but he was very aggressive, he had the Irish mentality he says, before asking "where is he now?"
The central basis for hiring Haan is that it would be a break with the past and offer a fresh approach to a qualifying tournament. I have to agree that bringing in another English manager in the mould of Venables is simply not going to work. We have tried it already, but we have been on a downward slope ever since. At least Haan would be a breath of fresh air and represent some new thinking, as would Hodgson to a lesser extent. But Haan's track record is hard to top, and certainly beats that of Venables. Given that we have tried the traditional approach (McCarthy, Kerr, Stan), why not go for broke and try something else. It is not as if we have anything to lose...we are fodder for the likes of Cyprus after all!!
has he done anything since the 80s? kevin keegan was playing for him during his managerial high point!!
when china he couldnt get out of his second round group containing kuwait, hong kong and malaysia!
and ireland have never gone down the traditional approach, which is appointing a successful manager:
- McCarthy - managed in the first division, sign him up!
- Kerr - underage manager
can we not just appoint someone whos qualified a team for a major championships or won a few trophys within at least the last 10 years?
- Stan - cone layer at walsall
Mark Mullan emailed me see below...
Dear ******,
Thank you for your email, great idea. It would really help. My number in Hong Kong is 852-9101-6796 or can you give me a number that I can call you on today.
On behalf of Arie, Thanks again ****** for your assistance
Best wishes
Mark
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
What did you propose?
Marriage. Its terrible that you have to go through agents these days to do it.
In Trap we trust
lol yeah..I said he should set up an anti-Venables petition...
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
Thanks for getting that posted up, Tets.
Haan speaks respectfully about Venables, though I can´t help reading between his lines.
Haan does a Steve Job's approach, Think Different. Time to break the Big Brother mould.
Fanning in his other article says that 'Haan's time in management has been curious and his appointment would throw Irish football into a greater period of doubt.'
I suppose that's a fair enough comment, there is a risk factor.
But better the devil we don't know than the devil we do know.
Very good
Im worried about the fact that he has never stayed with a team for too long.If he was appointed now then would he leave before the World Cup in 2010? Thats still three years away!
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