All Ireland League

[southside bohs]

fao gspain how many dubs do you get to go to limerick for the matches surely theres not that many.

[gspain]

Originally posted by southside bohs
fao gspain how many dubs do you get to go to limerick for the matches surely theres not that many.

We don't get too many travelling down to games from Dublin - I don't see the point of your question though.

[southside bohs]

i remember your name from the herald in the football page with all the clubs just wondering!

[TommyT]

Originally posted by gspain
If my memory serves me correctly the game was to be moved to 12 noon on police advice and Shels decided to up sticks to Tranmere. Shels would have lost heavily on the game in Dublin and probably not got the Eurosport deal either.

Originally posted by gspain
There was a scum element of the SuperProd culture from Northern Ireland causing trouble at the game. I know some Bohs fans blame rovers fans for the trouble from the Bohs end.

I think it is unfair to automatically associate that with Linfield Football Club. I doubt if many of them ever find their way to an Irish League ground.

While I don't think the secuuirity issues would be insurmountable I do find both of your posts laughable. There are plenty of hooligans (not so super-prod and otherwise) around the IL though I agree it's unfair to blame Linfield alone, there were probably plenty of Glentoran, Portadown, Coleraine fans etc running amok aswell as thousands of Scots. That said Linfield are ''plenty capable'' of causing havoc themselvesas long standing fans of Sligo and Dundalk could testify.

Where on earth (apart from the mouth of a patronising hun) did you here that crap about Shels ? Surely they'd have been MORE likely to get the TV deal if the game was likely to be more competitive.

[gspain]

TV deal is speculation but the game was being switched to 12 noon. I got that from the club. I can't imagine Eurosport would have been too bothered to show a live match at 12 noon rather than at prime evening viewing time.

There would have been a small crowd at Tolka. Tickets were £20 or £25 at the time and this was expensive. The security bill would have been very high and Shels would have lost heavily on the game.

I can see why the club moved the game but I didn't like it.

The trouble at the Bohs v Rangers game was I believe caused by fans from Northern Ireland not Scotland (on the Rangers side) and Dublin on the bohs side however they probably couldn't find their way to an Irish League ground

Both Shamrock rovers v Linfield games in 84 passed off without any major incidents although there was some stone throwing after the game at Milltown.

[TommyT]

I copped what you meant about the TV deal after I posted. Still the game was to be played at 12 noon on police advice so secuirity still caused the move. Rangers would take more than 150 to Kazakhstan for a UEFA Cup match so I'd imagine more than 3 buses would have showed up ''if you go to Dublin we will follow on ''. The Rovers-Linfield game passed off without incident because of the heavy secuiruty in Milltown (All Hoops in the Shed, all Bluemen in the small terrace that ran from the Main Stand to the Gonzaga End) and the fact that the club didn't take up any tickets for Windsor.

Still as you know there would've been plenty of trouble at that time at a big Limerick-Rovers match, no one would've suggested the LOI be split into East/West divisions. I firmly believe that football shouldn't be the only partitioned sport, and if football people in Belfast want to see an end to the game they love being behind Ice Hockey and Rugby (not to mention the GAA) in terms of spectator/media interest, they should embrace an All-Ireland league.

[gspain]

Rangers had restricted the troip to Travel club members who also must be season ticket holders. I had a ticket for a friend who had followed them everywhere and he wouldn't have been able to go on the official trip. He lost money on his boat and ferry etc but went to Tranmere anyway.

There may have been a crowd down from Northern Ireland or scotland without tickets looking for trouble but I doubt it. The game would have passed off quietly in front of a small corwd with heavy police presence and Shels would have lost a lot of money.
The guys who caused the trouble at Tranmere would have miost likely stayed away.

Rovers did bring a few fans to Belfast albeit incognito. i was at the return match. I don't rememebr a huge police presence and there was a little stone throwing afterwards but nothing major. I remember well the trouble a few months earlier at our Cup game in the Markets Field when my Dad's car got damaged.

Rovers are still my least favourite LoI side but I always support them once/twice a year in Europe. I've seen so many jammy Rovers wins v Limerick and so many unlucky European defeats - Linfield 84 & Celtic 86 spring to mind immediately.

[parnell ranger]

i remember the old Tyler cup played between top 4 in both leagues.
Athlone reached the final twice playing linfield on both occasions.
the last meeting was a riot from start to finish.
both flags being burned,a baton charge,the town wrecked,not a bit o notice paid to the game which we won incidentally.
the competition was eventually dropped after further trouble the next year .
Idont think the climate is right yet to start that craic again.
We dont need them at all.

[Shelsman]

Originally posted by ifk101
i think the best suggestion for the league is to bring relegation into the equation regarding the first division. some form of pyramid system has to be introduced into irish soccer - perhaps six regional league systems that incorporate every soccer club in the republic (and i mean every club) - the winners of these regional leagues play off as a home/away cup tie against each other producing 3 teams to be entered a cup semi final with the team that placed last in the first division. the winners of this go into the first division for the next season.

All very well but I don't think these clubs would have the proper facilities!!!

[Shelsman]

Originally posted by A face
On the political side of things ........ Hockey, Tennis, Rugby and GAA all have merged (there are alot more codes have done the same aswel)

Yes, but none of these sports have a history of hooliganism.

[gspain]

I don't think any of those sports have merged. They simply haven't split.

We broke away from the IFA in 1921. International football was played in Dublin as far back as 1900.

I'd love to see an All Ireland Cup. I don't think an all Ireland league is a runner becaus eof the political objections and loss of identity in Northern Ireland. Not to mention the loss of european places.

We already have huge opportunities to boost our own league. We need stronger provincial clubs - Limerick to come back (I know obvious bias here) but also sligo and Dundalk. We desperately need decent European performances. That's where our league will be judged. We've only had one club ever get through 2 rounds of European competitions.

[tiktok]

as gspain has hinted, isn't it more important to get our own house in order before we try to rescue the failing leagues in other countries?

in all this debate a lot of people have put forward ways it could be done, and (usually intelligent) rebuttals to those who are against it. in my opinion, only tommyt gave a good reason why an all ireland league should be attempted, because we could then support a full time professional league which would improve standards and advance the top clubs.

that's a good point, but isn't a full time professional league something we should be aiming for anyway? why are the northern clubs neccessary for it.

i'll admit i'm more open to the idea than i was way at the start, but i still think it's a no go for the forseeable future. again, i think if we attempted an all ireland cup and it worked then we have something to discuss. at the moment though, politics, security, loss of european places, finances of all but the larger clubs all work against it. i don't think this is being close minded, just realistic.

[eamoss]

I would love if it the two leagues came together. But i dont want it to be called an 'All Ireland League' just keep it as NL. Just think Dundalk V Newry, Dundalk V Armagh City & Dundalk V Linfield it would be class.

[Soko]

Originally posted by eamo
Dundalk V Linfield it would be class.

Sure it would.

[TommyT]

Other countries ?????????

The reason we need them Tiktok is that I believe Linfield and Glentoran to be the two biggest clubs in the country. Representing Ulster in a full-time league each of them would easily match Cork's average crowds. and be competitive in Europe withthe money the could spend.

[A face]

Originally posted by gspain
Not to mention the loss of european places.

Not a chance ... if the leagues merges, you wouldn't expect UEFA to reward that .... glad you're not in charge. Seriously though .... that would be something to play for aswell, a place in the competition with not as many qualifing rounds would be great.

[southside bohs]

you are forgetting that linfield and glentoran are still semi-professinal and are most of the time always in debt.

the only thing they will bring is a new meaning to the matches, like a bohs and cork game would easily match a bohs and glentoran game in meaning and a rovers and linfield game would be the old firm of the irish league, no doubt about it.

but finacially they would bring nothing,sure familys would be affraid to bring their children to windsor or dalymount if linfield were playing bohs or rovers and not just them but any match between north and south (excluding cliftonville)

[tiktok]

Originally posted by TommyT
The reason we need them Tiktok is that I believe Linfield and Glentoran to be the two biggest clubs in the country. Representing Ulster in a full-time league each of them would easily match Cork's average crowds. and be competitive in Europe withthe money the could spend.

i take the point that it'd ease the transition into a full time league, but you're post explains the advantage to them, not to us. surely we should get our own house in order first. and derry are the sole representatives for ulster yet two years ago had to be dug out of heavy debt.

also, your post suggests that 'standing up to the boys from the republic' might be the driving force for their increased attendances, surely the type of sectarian attention we have all agreed in this post that we definitely don't need.

[TommyT]

I find your attitude a little perplexing, what's with the them and us attitude ??? I live a lot closer to ''them'' than to Cork.

The advantage for the league in general of having big (by Irish standards) city teams instead of those from small provincial towns should be obvious. Sponsorship and TV revenue would increase as would attendences. Are you seriously telling me that ''standing up to the dubs'' is not a motivating factor for a lot of city's support. The point about Derry is a canard-they don't have the ''province wide'' support base Linfield and Glentoran do.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by TommyT
I find your attitude a little perplexing, what's with the them and us attitude ??? I live a lot closer to ''them'' than to Cork.

C'mon now tommyt, where do i refer to them as "them", i don't have a problem with northern teams and i don't envision them coming down raping and pilaging and then winning all "our" trophies (quite the opposite in fact).

Originally posted by TommyT
Sponsorship and TV revenue would increase as would attendences.

again, i grant you this point , interest would be high (initially at least). but lets not overstate the interest either. we've been following league of ireland long enough to realise that when it comes to coverage it has to be sky. bbc northern ireland show a hell of a lot more irish league football than tv3 show of the EL. but it still gets swamped in the ratings by the premiership and la liga. you still have less people actually going to games in the IL than the EL. you suggested on an earlier post (quite correctly) that we'd have to be a winter league to avoid trouble in the summer, thereby going back head to head with the premiership (and friday night nationwide league live on sky (they won't show our games, full stop)). TV3 and RTE have given little indication they value domestic soccer, unless it's the national side, i think this will continue as long as our national players are all based abroad. can we agree on that?

Originally posted by TommyT
The advantage for the league in general of having big (by Irish standards) city teams instead of those from small provincial towns should be obvious.

Provincial sides, what like sligo, harps, waterford and longford?Some of the smaller towns, but passionately supported clubs. no way will i ever agree it's worth triming these teams loose (in some regional second division). how is the domestic league going to build when you take the game and fix it in three or four urban centres.

Originally posted by TommyT
Are you seriously telling me that ''standing up to the dubs'' is not a motivating factor for a lot of city's support.

of course it is, we get bigger gates for dublin clubs (by the way, so do the smaller provincial clubs), but thats a geographical (and maybe cultural) divide rather than a sectarian one. different kettle of fish.

Originally posted by TommyT
The point about Derry is a canard-they don't have the ''province wide'' support base Linfield and Glentoran do.

yet they're still semi professional.

i'm actually enjoying this debate, and as i've said i'm more open to it than i was at the start. but to take the view of "them" for a moment, do you really think the rest of the northern clubs will be happy with being represented by just linfield and glentoran. local communities will not let their smaller clubs die. it's one of the reasons i think it can't get off the ground.....at least for now.