QuoteAn email petition is worthless to be honest. We send it, they ignore it, what's next? Something which involves face to face contact (or ideally fist to face contact) would be much better.
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Good points well made.
Is it worth directly e mailing any of the journalists who aren't in favour of his appointment such as Daniel McDonnell or Eamon Carr? Couldn't do any harm and wouldn't be a bad angle for a story from their point of view.
An email petition is worthless to be honest. We send it, they ignore it, what's next? Something which involves face to face contact (or ideally fist to face contact) would be much better.
Dont agree, its a start at least..its better than talking hot air and doing nothing, like the supposed delaney out protests in cardiff....
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
Humphries article today
Tom Humphries LockerRoom It's a lonely old business this waiting for the great leap forward. Poor old Stan was ushered off the stage after all the plates he tried to keep spinning crashed to the floor and he went all redfaced and had to concede he hadn't actually known that much about spinning plates in the first place.
The ringmaster, the slender guy with the foppish quiff, stepped in though and told us he personally wouldn't be auditioning the acts anymore and he recognised that seeing plates crash to the floor wasn't exactly topline entertainment in this day and age and he would be seeing to it we got something a little more sophisticated in future.
To this end he wouldn't be hiring the next headliner himself. There were people who would do that sort of thing, apparently. They might go to the Continent, where all manner of sophisticated artistry was available. And then! Ta da! Before you can say, "Knees up, Mother Brown," we are being asked to clap our hands together and look excited about Mistah Terry Venables.
El Tel is being offered to us as a break from the tradition of rinky-dink managers! Not just that but this most jaded and traditional of acts has been auditioned by the foppish ringmaster himself and now in a bizarre piece of reverse engineering is being passed on to the people who were supposed to find and audition him in the first place.
It's a little piece of tapdancing designed to soothe the foppish ringmaster fella, who doesn't believe that the buck ever stops with him.
Of course we in the media are full of it. The FAI is happily leaking every detail about the process and using the media as a sort of bargain-basement focus group.
Now El Tel has always been quite the silver-tongued charmer when it comes to the media. Owning a watering hole called Scribes West was a fantastic way to make the Fourth Estate think he was a fine fellow, and if you flick through El Tel's back pages you will find his apologists and supporters have always vastly outnumbered his detractors.
And so this week there is no questioning the wisdom of appointing a man who has just been bumped from his job assisting in one of the most humiliating periods of history English football has known. Hey! Lighten up, folks, he's good enough for us. And he's popular with the biro jockeys. We need be no more ambitious than that.
Even the name, El Tel, so redolent of straw hats with Kiss Me Quick on them and oul wans singing Una Paloma Blanca, was bestowed on Venables as an honorific by a grateful tabloidery when, by moving to Barcelona at the start of the 1984-1985 season, he gave them the chance to make regular, all-expenses-paid trips to Spain.
Lots of what is believed to be true about Venables as a coach and manager stems from that time in Spain. He wasn't though, as sometimes supposed, the great master of the technical and tactical arts people suppose him to be. Bernd Schuster (not a Venables signing) was in his late pomp and drove Barca to success from midfield that year.
Barca played a traditional English 4-4-2 style though, and when the rest of Spain caught up months later the jig was up. Barca lost the following year's European Cup final to Steaua Bucharest despite playing in Seville in front of 50,000 of their own supporters.
Venables talked up beforehand the sort of football they would play but never delivered and a scoreless game went to extra time and then penalties.
More interestingly, Bernd Schuster, when taken off, walked straight out of the stadium and never mended his relationship with Venables, a split with a key player which was to presage Venables's inability to get along with either Olivier Dacourt or David Batty when he would become manager of Leeds United many years later.
Venables was eventually fired from Barcelona having failed to trouble the engravers with the task of etching Barca's name on to any more silverware. He brought Gary Lineker to the city, a good move counterbalanced by bringing Mark Hughes also. One worked. One didn't. Not the stuff of genius.
He returned to England to manage Tottenham for six years during which he won an FA Cup (Spurs' traditional win in a year with a one in it), and despite spending freely and securing one third-place finish he never really launched Spurs to be anything better than the mid-table side he was hired to stop them being.
Inevitably again, a clash of personalities developed and he fell out with Alan Sugar over business dealings. Venables beetled away, hired some learned friends and gained a temporary injunction to have himself reinstated. Later though he lost a high court hearing and was ordered to pay costs.
His assiduous courting of key media people though paid dividends again.
Graham Taylor , more to be pitied than laughed at, was laughed out of the England job when he failed to get them to the 1994 World Cup. The red tops wanted El Tel for England. The FA blazers viewed him as damaged goods (something which doesn't bother us at all) and eventually succumbed but wouldn't dignify him with the title of England manager. He was coach.
England hosted the 1996 European Championship. Sparing themselves the need to qualify.
Venables's talented team played some good football but couldn't close the deal. They went out on penalties to Germany in the semi-final. Probably the pinnacle of Venables's managerial career.
Everything since then has been vaguely comical. Managing Australia and contriving to lose out on World Cup qualification in a play-off with Iran. He consulted at Portsmouth. He left in controversial circumstances, with Portsmouth bottom of the table. He spent nine ignominious months at Crystal Palace before leaving in acrimony with no success to show.
He was out of management for two years before becoming "head coach" to Bryan Robson at free-spending Middlesbrough. His acumen helped Boro secure a wonderful 14th-place finish. He walked after six months.
On and on.
In July 2002, Venables came across the poster boy for chairmen with more money than sense, Peter Ridsdale, and became manager of Leeds United. By December 2002 poor old Leeds realised they had the manager they deserved.
The team had crashed out of the League Cup and the Uefa Cup and were mired in the bottom half of the table. By March 2003 Venables had been sacked, jacked and fired.
And since his CV has been fleshed out with the glory of being assistant to Steve McClaren, he takes a generous share of the blame for England's heroically comical failure to qualify for next summer's European Championship.
This then is the beaten docket the FAI is holding up to us as if it were the Golden Ticket to Willie Wonka's chocolate factory. A guy whose isolated successes have been overhyped and oversold, a guy who cuts and runs in any place where he doesn't fall out with players or officialdom, a guy from whom the smell of cordite is never far away.
This then is the limit of our ambitions? More of the same? England are raising their eyes and looking at Jose Mourinho. We are scrapping about for England's cast-offs.
What's that quote Roy Keane is fond of? To keep doing the same thing expecting different results is the definition of stupidity.
C'mon down, Tel. Have a pint of the black stuff and tell us how Oirish you feel, begob and bejapers.
© 2007 The Irish Times
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
Dont agree at all with this. Very one-sided view of El Tel. Any player who works with him seemed to have only good things to say. We need someone whoo will bring back a positive vibe to the team and i thnk he would. Him or Hodgson id be happy with
well in fairness the players had great things to say about Stan...his record doesnt satnd up at all. We really need to do something to voice our concern!!!!!!!!!!
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
Like Stan & Mick Byrne against Sweden? The feelgood didn't last long once we started getting outplayed and outthought by the likes of Chile and Cyprus and getting thoroughly spanked by Holland.
I do see where you're coming from, but more than this is required in my opinion.
Here was my first post on this thread-
What do you think? It's easy to do, visible-especially of you have invited a press photographer, and only takes 1 or 2 (but hopefully more) fans.
Any email petitions I have seen in the past have not only singularly failed to achieve their objectives, but have been hijacked by "amusing" buffoonery and rendered practically useless halfway through their journey.
If you must contact the FAI and their supporters in the press, a delivery of Individual mails carries more weight, figuratively and literally than a single petition (a petition that will no doubt invariably be signed by, amongst others, Mike Rotch , Anita Bath and I.P. Freely.)
On the way into the stadium, an elderly San Marino Steward waved us in and said "Tonight, may the best team win"
And they nearly did.
Thankfully Humphries has decided to let us know his thoughts on venables.
A paragraph from Paul Lennon in The Star:
"Gerard Houllier and Roy Hodgson have their strengths but neither commands the respect that El Tel does when it comes to tactics, coaching and player motivation."
I really despair at some of the Journalism in this country, I am not fan of Houllier by any measure but the simple fact is that he has won trophies is the near past, both domestic and European, while venables hasn't even got a sniff of a respectable job in the last number of years. McLaren rescued him from obscurity, he was thanked by venables by undermining him in his newspaper column.
Hodgson also has trophies to his name, he is currently managing (well resigned at mo), he has a number of options and most importantly from my perspective, he knows how to get a team to a major tournament.
Does anybody on the continent even remember venables? Both Houllier and Hodgson are well respected on the continent. Paul, football does not begin and end in England, venables is not the man for the job, he is a joke and nobody else would touch him with a barge poll.
If he is hired then there is no doubting the fact that John Delaney has to be removed from the FAI for repeated attempts at destroying Irish football.
This is not the best signature in the world, this is just a tribute
Good article by Humphries. I wonder what his take on Hodgson is?
Dewey, Cheatem and (Don) Howe.
SIGNATURESCOPE
Score!
On the way into the stadium, an elderly San Marino Steward waved us in and said "Tonight, may the best team win"
And they nearly did.
I see where your coming from regarding the petition...is his mail address john.delaney@fai.ie???
Regarding the banner thing, good in theory, but how will you/we orhestrate it..we need a good group of fans to show up for it even to be considered by the media as a story!! I doubt most would bother turning up..
'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch
also haven't the FAI upped sticks to Blanch now, which would make it a bit more of a pain in the arse to organise....
"Well I think they'll be a little disappointed with that" - Matt Holland on TV3 after 5-2 drubbing by Cyprus
Coincidence.
In Trap we trust
indeed
"Well I think they'll be a little disappointed with that" - Matt Holland on TV3 after 5-2 drubbing by Cyprus
Could be, especially if you were thinking to scale those new railings.
I've not really the time nor the inclination to post my twopennorth about El Tel, but the above section in Humphries rant, er, considered journalistic evaluation made me laugh out loud - especially in the context of the anti-Venners camp complaining about his (TV's) manipulation of the media.
Anyhow, so El Tel is to be damned becauser he fell out with Bernd Schuster.
Just read the following from BS's Wikipedia entry (I know, I know):
"During his heyday as a player Schuster and his wife, Gaby, were well known celebrities in Germany, and were both loved and hated. Gaby had a controversial reputation, worsened when she took over the job as her husband's manager. She was soon labelled by the press as being "Bernd's dragon-like boss" without whom he would never even sign a bill in a restaurant. During the Schusters' residence in Spain, Gaby was also notorious for her often very public, rude, and interfering comments directed towards FC Barcelona coach Udo Lattek and national coach Jupp Derwall when her husband played for them. Gaby and Bernd Schuster are still married and have four children. Gaby is a famous sport manager but she has not been Bernd Schuster's manager for some years.
Schuster was an important part of the FC Barcelona team during the 1980s, leading the game from midfield and scoring many goals. The team bought other stars like Diego Maradona, Allan Simonsen and Gary Lineker, but only Bernd, genial and controversial at the same time, was a profitable player for the club. His club president Josep Luís Nuñez and some trainers like Helenio Herrera, Udo Lattek, Terry Venables and Luis Aragones had difficult relations with him"
OR
"Schuster won only twenty-one caps for the West German national team and he retired from international football at the extremely young age of 24, due to his repeated disagreements with the German Football Association, then national team manager Jupp Derwall, and teammates including Paul Breitner"
As for Dacourt, he was p issing Leeds off even during the good times under DO'L:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2002/0328/leeds.html
The above report (Mar.2002) came a fornight after the following comment by Dacourt:
"I signed a new contract in the summer until 2006, but it does not mean anything. I decided to stay because I felt good and the club made me vice-captain. But if I go, I will go to a great club"
(http://www.rte.ie/sport/2002/0310/leeds.html)
In the nine years since he left his "breakthrough" club in France (Strasbourg), the hugely talented Dacourt has played fewer than 250 games for five different clubs in three different countries.
As for David Batty? Maybe El Tel fell out with him - it wouldn't be hard, since Batty is best known for fighting on the pitch during a game. With a teammate.
Or maybe TV just didn't rate him - then again, I've a feeling Peter Reid and even Eddie Gray didn't either (any Leeds fans comfirm or deny?). Anyhow, it was the latter who got shot of him.
Personally, I can't make up my mind whether TV would be a great or a terrible appointment (can't see it being anywhere in between), but undoubtedly his finest credentials lie with his coaching and man-management. As such, I have earlier posted how not one player of note - even those he fell out with - has ever doubted his talents in those areas and it is notable that in the rush to condemn him, no-one can contradict this. (Humphries above efforts are pathetic, imo, reflecting the fact that football is not his major sport, especially English football).
Instead, I'll leave you with one anecdote which tells just as much about the man as his dodgy dealings. In 1988, Paul Gascoigne (Young Player of the Year) was the hot prospect in English football, with Newcastle realising they couldn't hold on to him. Apparently, Gazza wanted to join Liverpool, but they wouldn't pay the fee, so he talked to ManU. The two clubs agreed a fee and Gazza shook hands with Fergie on a deal, just before Fergie went off for a short holiday. Somehow, El Tel found out that Gazza hadn't actually put pen to paper. This is where the clever bit comes in. Instead of going to see him himself, he sent fellow Geordie and ex Magpie Chris Waddle up to Newcastle. Waddle took Gazza out on the town for the weekend, where naturally enough, they discussed football. And Spurs. And Venables.
Next thing, Gazza flies down to talk to Venners, who signs him up before Fergie's luggage had even come off the carousel at Manchester Airport!
As I say, it might all go horribly wrong if TV gets the ROI manager's job, but the players will love him, that's for sure!
Venables fell out with Batty to accommodate his old buddy Paul Okon (an utter donkey), a decision that had a hell of a lot to do with the disastrous start that left Leeds in relegation trouble that Christmas which precipitated the sale of Woodgate and was a major factor in the crumbling of the house of sand that Peter Ridsdale had built. This was with a squad that had been top 5 the previous 4 seasons. The players there at the time said he was all over the place tactically and awful at getting his ideas across and seemed a man out of his time. Batty subsequently played under both Reid (a dreadful manager mind you) and Gray when fit.
As for Dacourt, he was p issing Leeds off even during the good times under DO'L:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2002/0328/leeds.html
The above report (Mar.2002) came a fornight after the following comment by Dacourt:
"I signed a new contract in the summer until 2006, but it does not mean anything. I decided to stay because I felt good and the club made me vice-captain. But if I go, I will go to a great club"
(http://www.rte.ie/sport/2002/0310/leeds.html)
In the nine years since he left his "breakthrough" club in France (Strasbourg), the hugely talented Dacourt has played fewer than 250 games for five different clubs in three different countries.
As for David Batty? Maybe El Tel fell out with him - it wouldn't be hard, since Batty is best known for fighting on the pitch during a game. With a teammate.
Or maybe TV just didn't rate him - then again, I've a feeling Peter Reid and even Eddie Gray didn't either (any Leeds fans comfirm or deny?). Anyhow, it was the latter who got shot of him.
Instead, I'll leave you with one anecdote which tells just as much about the man as his dodgy dealings. In 1988, Paul Gascoigne (Young Player of the Year) was the hot prospect in English football, with Newcastle realising they couldn't hold on to him. Apparently, Gazza wanted to join Liverpool, but they wouldn't pay the fee, so he talked to ManU. The two clubs agreed a fee and Gazza shook hands with Fergie on a deal, just before Fergie went off for a short holiday. Somehow, El Tel found out that Gazza hadn't actually put pen to paper. This is where the clever bit comes in. Instead of going to see him himself, he sent fellow Geordie and ex Magpie Chris Waddle up to Newcastle. Waddle took Gazza out on the town for the weekend, where naturally enough, they discussed football. And Spurs. And Venables.
Next thing, Gazza flies down to talk to Venners, who signs him up before Fergie's luggage had even come off the carousel at Manchester Airport!
As I say, it might all go horribly wrong if TV gets the ROI manager's job, but the players will love him, that's for sure!
As for Gazza, he's regretted that decision since. Venables man management or lack of it left Gazza free range to **** his career up against the wall, doubt Fergie would have allowed it. In any case, the relevance of a transfer deal nearly 20 years ago escapes me.
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