Is it getting tougher to qualify?

[paul_oshea]

Der as well as that the standard of ALL countries competing was not at the level it is at now....

[eekers]

There were a lot less coutries in Europe back then though. One Yugoslavia, one Czechoslovakia, one Russian team etc.

Not comparing like with like.

not a single one of those extra countires have qualified for euro2008 in comparison to italia 90

russia have taken ussr's place
germany have taken west germany's place
croatia have taken yugoslavia's place
czech republic have taken czechoslovakia's place

none of them even managed thrid in their groups either

[Drumcondra 69er]

not a single one of those extra countires have qualified for euro2008 in comparison to italia 90

russia have taken ussr's place
germany have taken west germany's place
croatia have taken yugoslavia's place
czech republic have taken czechoslovakia's place

none of them even managed thrid in their groups either

It's not the point, the likes of Serbia, Ukraine and even Macedonia as we're well aware of are capable of results and nicking points here and there. The fact that there's more middling nations in thr European qualifying pool means more difficult games means harder to qualify. Take Macedonia out of the equation for Euro 2000 for example and we would have topped the group.

[eekers]

yes but surely its easier to get 3 points off slovakia and then 3 points of the czechs than playing czechoslovakia?

by this logic we should send a leinster, munster and connaught-ulster teams in and hope one of them qualifies

[Scram]

I find that I am making a fairly obvious statement here, but looking over the last two qualifying campaigns, winning away from home is getting more and more difficult, not just for us for everyone, and there are a lot more suprise results. It seems nowadays that you no longer need to beat all the 3-6 entries in a table, but also at least 1 of the top 2 at least twice. The points for second were extremely high in all groups this time round.

It will be very hard to qualify for Euro 2008 at this stage.

[Torn-Ado]

If we want to qualify, we need to model our aspirations on the WC2002 qualifying campaign. Unbeaten, beat all the weaker nations (and handsomely), take at least one big scalp.

Its a huge ask without any leaders. Actually its an impossible task.

[Cymro]

True to a point but the problem will be that only the winners go through and only the best 8 second places reach the playoffs.

It's going to be hell to try and qualify, I'd sooner the larger group and top two automtically going in.

For me there shoud be pre qualifying for the weaker nations, let them get some proper competition in their games before they get put in a group where the finish up on zero points.

Disagree with the last part of your post. I think it's fine as it is now, all nations have an equal chance to qualify and I wouldn't like to see it become like the Champions' League which is so obviously biased to the bigger teams.

I understand that some games where a 'minnow' plays one of Europe's superpowers can be very one-sided, but even the 'minnows' should be able to aim for better things. Look at Liechtenstein who've moved up a pot, or Luxembourg who pushed the Netherlands close.

Also smaller nations depend on the cash they get from TV money, gate receipts and also the publicity from the bigger games. Taking that away from them would make international football economically unviable for those countries.

As for the first part of your post. I largely agree, but at least making the play-offs is something. Rather miss out in the play-offs than be nowhere near qualification. And since play-offs are just one off home and away ties you never know what could happen.

I personally prefer the six team system. Five teams (like we had in Euro 2004 where we made the play-offs) would be even better.

[eekers]

how about 12 groups of 4, 1 group of 5. top team goes through.

would we have more chance that way?

[Drumcondra 69er]

Disagree with the last part of your post. I think it's fine as it is now, all nations have an equal chance to qualify and I wouldn't like to see it become like the Champions' League which is so obviously biased to the bigger teams.

I understand that some games where a 'minnow' plays one of Europe's superpowers can be very one-sided, but even the 'minnows' should be able to aim for better things. Look at Liechtenstein who've moved up a pot, or Luxembourg who pushed the Netherlands close.

Also smaller nations depend on the cash they get from TV money, gate receipts and also the publicity from the bigger games. Taking that away from them would make international football economically unviable for those countries.

As for the first part of your post. I largely agree, but at least making the play-offs is something. Rather miss out in the play-offs than be nowhere near qualification. And since play-offs are just one off home and away ties you never know what could happen.

I personally prefer the six team system. Five teams (like we had in Euro 2004 where we made the play-offs) would be even better.

I disagree, I think a pre qualifying tournament for the smaller nations would be a money spinner in itself and may generate more interest given that they'd have a chance of winning some games. And they wouldn't all be excluded from the main qualifiers, say half of them would still get through. The rest would have something to aim for next time around and as their coefficient improved maybe they could get a permanent place.

As for the play offs, having suffered 3 defeats in them in the last 12 years they're utterly heartbreaking, I know what you mean but it's nearly been easier being ****e then feeling like that!

[mypost]

Disagree with the last part of your post. I think it's fine as it is now, all nations have an equal chance to qualify and I wouldn't like to see it become like the Champions' League which is so obviously biased to the bigger teams.

I personally prefer the six team system. Five teams (like we had in Euro 2004 where we made the play-offs) would be even better.

The more in a group, the better, afaic. The more in a group, the more mistakes you can make. Scotland lost 4 games in their EC group, and failed to qualify by only 2 points. In a 5-team group however, you cannot afford to lose 2 games in it, as we know from our last experience. A 5-team group also hits you in the pocket financially, with at least 2 less games to play, replaced by meaningless friendlies. And I hate play-offs.

I hope we never go down the route of making teams pre-qualify, as eventually, that will mean we'll have to as well. This is the WC, and everyone is invited to play. There are poor people/teams in every sport, but at least they have the right to have a go.

[eekers]

You definately want to be in the larger group because of this:

The five team groups are just like the six team groups minus the 'san marino' team at the bottom.
Forget that this is a free six points that all your rivals get.
this is 2 x 375 fifa rankings points that you are guaranteed.
To get the equilvant points in a friendly, you'd need to beat a european team ranked 75th or more . Consider Wales are 74th, and we cant beat them.

[Schumi]

I think a pre qualifying tournament for the smaller nations would be a money spinner in itself

How? Who's going to care about Luxembourg v San Marino? Crowds will be tiny & there'll be no TV money.

[Ceirtlis]

how about 12 groups of 4, 1 group of 5. top team goes through.

would we have more chance that way?

Dont think so. Whatever chance we have off splitting two teams above our level we would find it very hard to get above just one of the top teams. Euro 92 qualifiers are a good example.

[OwlsFan]

Forget about populations - we are well able to mix it with the four teams above - we played atrocious away against the Czechs and nearly got a result - imagine a good solid well motivated outfit we would have a chance of getting 4 points against the Czech Republic.

I mean if we want to be defeatist - or in your words - realistic - just bring back Stan and let us plod along for another campaign. We are capable of much better than that. With the players at our disposal, we are capable of mixing it in any group.

So tell me which country with a pin ***** of a population has qualified for the Euros, the majority of whom play a national sport and not soccer? Of course it's relevant.

The fact is we've kicked well above our weight and this has made people's expectations way above what they should be.

"The players at our disposal" - how many of our players would realistically have got a game for the Czech or German teams. 3 or 4 max I'd say?

As for it being harder to qualify, I remember 30 years where we qualified for zilch. We've also and that was by the grace of God just qualifed for one Euro Championship so I don't think it's any tougher than before.

[paul_oshea]

OwlsFan the difference is that we play both to the same level at an early age, whereas in teh continent they focus solely on one. At home a choice is made around 14 or 15 or sometimes even later ala doyle and long etc, even hunt to a lesser extent. So its not completely accurate what you are saying above....you can develop at both as good not just cos you focus solely on one....

[galwayhoop]

If we want to qualify, we need to model our aspirations on the WC2002 qualifying campaign. Unbeaten, beat all the weaker nations (and handsomely), take at least one big scalp.

a lot harder said than done. in the WC02 qualifiers we went unbeaten for the duration. bet all the so called lesser teams home and away (god be with the days of dissapointing 3-0 away wins against the minnows!!!!). drew with both the dutch and portugal away, drew with portugal at home and bet the dutch. we still only finished 2nd and had to go to a play-off where we were lucky imo to draw iran as a lot of good teams out there at the time.

we did excellent in that campaign against two genuine world powerhouses, and eventually to knock-out one of them. both holland and portugal, at the time, would have had genuine (and realistic) aspirations of winning the tournament outright!!!

we have struggled against far inferior opposition since then, even when we were top seeds in a group, which won't happen again for quite some time.

[Cymro]

I disagree, I think a pre qualifying tournament for the smaller nations would be a money spinner in itself and may generate more interest given that they'd have a chance of winning some games. And they wouldn't all be excluded from the main qualifiers, say half of them would still get through. The rest would have something to aim for next time around and as their coefficient improved maybe they could get a permanent place.

As for the play offs, having suffered 3 defeats in them in the last 12 years they're utterly heartbreaking, I know what you mean but it's nearly been easier being ****e then feeling like that!

San Marino would earn about 1/100th, if not even less, of the income playing Andorra in a one off pre-qualifier as they would playing a full set of qualifiers.

If they got drawn against Kazakhstan, they may not actually have the money to complete the journey and would have to pull out.

They already have plenty to aim for (see Liechtenstein nearly making the fifth pot of seeds for the WC) and all have a much brighter future under the current system than they would if pre-qualifiers were introduced.

[Qwerty]

Each with populations far greater than ours and much bigger pool of players to choose from. How many countries with a population of 4 million qualified as a matter of interest and where soccer is only the 2nd sport behind the national game? We need to get realistic about where we are in the world pecking order.

You are being a reductionist, just look at what Northern Ireland did in this campaign. Look at their team sheet and 99% of people in NI couldn't name the clubs the NI players play for!

If you look at our best 11 and compare with the top 20 in European we don't look that bad, we have been underperforming IMO, basically down to poor management.

Again NI have had some great results, we have done sh1te since 2001/2002. We are completely pathetic.

[osarusan]

It has been made more difficult in a way, because the breakup of Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia has produced a number of very good teams, and quite a few teams that are a nasty away trip where many teams lose a point, or three.

Mainly though, we don't have the same standard of players as we had then, and our managers are not good enough to make us punch above our weight.