It took 5 years after the case was won in europe for it to be actually repealed.Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
just a thought, but could the fact she was involved with those women looking to be allowed to drive have anything to do with her increased sentence.......Edit: On the otherhand maybe we could bring in this law.
or is it just the BBC have only one photo of a Saudi woman and cars!!!!
on a serious note i assume she was being punished for fraternising with a member/members of the opposite sex and thereby creating temptation - not agreeing with it obviously but only guessing as to what crime she had committed!
I think the BBC only have one photo - there have been cut back sin the news division recently so they have to do a close up to make it look different.
Just telling you what I was told, but it was in Dubai. In regards to the drinking water/Ramadan thing my friend (let's call her her real name, Elaine) said that her and her fellow airline stewardess were being driven back to their complex when her friend took a bottle of water out of her bag and drank some of it. The driver stopped the car, turned around, started shouting at her and began threatening her with the police
Lets not make any apologies for them, what happened to that lady was cruel and barbaric.
You're wrong there.
Feck the Labour backbenchers - doesn't matter what small token statement one or two of them may make, they all bleat along like sheep when they're told, so they're all equally culpable for supporting the Labour regime that arms Saudi Arabia, prevents legal challenges for corruption in those arms sales, and is still involved in the ongoing decimation of Iraq.
Only one political party made a stand on the Saudis - the Lib Dems, who publically refused to send representatives to the various official events organised with the Saudi leader that they were invited to (e.g. the royal banquet). the same party, incidentally, whio was the only one who was pushing for the investigation ibnto corruption over arms sales to the Saudis to be continued. The same party, incidentally, who was the only one that opposed the Iraq War from the very start.
As Acvting Leader of the Lib Dems Vince Cable said, "I think it's quite wrong that as a country we should give the leader of Saudi Arabia this honour."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7066754.stm
Labour are a bunch of cnuts who are worse than the Tories were under Thatcher. There's only one real political choice in England for voters who despise things like the Saudi visit, the Iraq war, the ongoing McCarthy-esque erosion of civil liberties (58 days in prison without providing any proof anyone...?) etc etc.
You, sir, are an idiot......
It's extremely important to clarify the difference between culture, Islam and extreme Islam.
There is nothing in Islam that dictates the suppression of women etc etc as is often stated. Hence you have examples of predominantly Muslim countries that don't enforce strict interpretations of Islam when it comes to women (e.g. Turkey, Indonesia). People will pluck obscure passages out of the Koran to claim there is - but believe me, there are just as many mysogynistic passages in the New and Old Testament. The isue is about how they're interpretated by religious groups, and for what purpose.
In some Muslim countries, culture is mistaken for religion. A classic example of this is arranged marriage in places like India and Pakistan. People in the West assume it's part of their religion. It's not - it's cultural, and is shared across religions in those countries. Likewise, there are plenty of Muslim countries that don't have arranged marriages.
Finally, onto extremism. The Saudis are the supreme world-wide advocates of the most virulently extreme form of Islam - Wahabbi'ism. The Saudi regime funds the publication of books, the building of schools and mosques etc etc all around the world to perpetuate the Wahabbi sect that originated in Saudi Arabia and that was the religion of the 'tribe' who came to control what is now Saudi Arabia. Wahabbi'ism is no more representative of Islam than the Westboro Baptist Church is of Christanity (by the way, they're the ones Louis Theorux covered who picket soldiers funerals in the US, as they say everything negative that happens is God's punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuals). There are plenty of Christian fundamentalists and plenty of bad things done by Christian groups - look at the murders of abortion doctors, stealing children to provide 'miracle babies' amongst certain African churches, child abuse by clerics in Ireland and elsewhere etc etc etc.
Exteremism isn't the preserve of Islam, and more imprtantly - neither should it or does it define it.
A huge part of the problem here is that Europe just doesn't understand religion any more. We're the one part of the world that is becoming less and less religious, at the very time that the US, Asia, The Middle East, Africa etc are embracing religion ever deeper. Hence, we don't 'get' what happens in other countries a lot of the time, and we seem incapable of differentiating between religion, extreme forms of those religions and local culture. None of that means we're wrong in some of our judgements about what is done in the name of religion, however - we just seem incapable of looking at a complex situartion in anything other than an extremely simple and unnecessarily aggregated way.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 21/11/2007 at 1:14 PM.
Nazi Germany wasn't about Aryans vs the rest. Plenty of Aryans were Nazi targets as well - Trade Unionists, homosexuals, Communists, Religious leaders etc. Not to mention other supposedly non-aryan groups, like gypsies, Slavs. As Pastor Niemuller famously wrote, by teh time they came for him there was no-one left to speak out !
Dubai is a major tourist resort that is rammed to the rafters with non-Muslims. It is an extremely liberal country in its apoproach to non-Muslims, and you can do whetever the feck you like during Ramadam. I therefore suspect that the store you've recounted, if true, was just an example of an arse-hoole taxi driver. If some aul biddy in Ireland castifgated you for eating a steak sandwich on a Friday, would that suddenly make us a fundamentalist state....?
As an aside, it is 'illegal' to sell drink in Thailand on the king's birthday.
I don't think the friend you've mentioned wouldd hold that country up as an extremist state however....
Possibly seperate laws for the tourists and the residents, I know for example she is not allowed have males in her apartment after a certain hour, that's more of a company law (Emirates) than a national law, but hardly bodes well for this extremely liberal country you speak of.
Furthermore I haven't lived there, nor have you, so I'm gonna take her word about how liberal the place is over any of us
I've been to Dubai. I have a female friend who's Dad has been living there for about 4 years, and who visits there regularly. I'm off there again myself for New Year's. Admittedly I haven't lived there, but neither do I know nothing about the place.
It's liberal re tourists. How else do you think the likes of Posh Spice and loads of other super-rich famous people are gonna get on there in the fancy homes they've just bought on the Palm development if it was such a repressive regime for visitors ??
As for non-visitors - less than 20% of the population of the country is indigenous anyway.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 22/11/2007 at 8:12 PM.
Based on evidence you present DCFC Steve and our own experience in this country there appears to be a very simple equation.The more Religon is prevelant in a state particularly where it influences legislation=a decrease in individual freedoms and what we would now regard as human rights abuses(or downright cruelty).
Any exception to this rule?I know it is sometimes claimed that Religons gave societies standards of behaviour and structure where there was previously just the law of the jungle.It seems that all the major religons have been a bad deal for Women,Gay people, other denominations when it is woven into state law. Excuse me I am waffling.
You're essentially right, but you're looking at the wrong thing here - or at least you're looking at it in isolation.Based on evidence you present DCFC Steve and our own experience in this country there appears to be a very simple equation.The more Religon is prevelant in a state particularly where it influences legislation=a decrease in individual freedoms and what we would now regard as human rights abuses(or downright cruelty).
Any exception to this rule?I know it is sometimes claimed that Religons gave societies standards of behaviour and structure where there was previously just the law of the jungle.It seems that all the major religons have been a bad deal for Women,Gay people, other denominations when it is woven into state law. Excuse me I am waffling.
Religion is essentially an 'ideology'. One based upon spirituality in essence, but in its desire to ensure its adherents live their lives in a certain way it is essentially no different to regimes such as communism, fascism etc.
So - it is obvious to say that where religion influences legislation, individuals will be less free to do what they want. Because that is the whole idea. But the same is true with divine-right monarchy, communism, fascism, dictatorship etc etc. Where any ideology that claims it has the right and the 'answers' to tell people how they should live is given access to legislation,then it will obviously seek to enforce that viewpoint. Religion is no different in this than many other 'ideologies'. Even the opposite of religion in states - militant secularism - is no better than religion in this (e.g. the way religion was crushed in Communist Russia).
same goes for pubs closing here on Christmas day
Camac Ultras North Terrace Section
Iranian child victim of prostitution
Iranian child rapped by brothers accused of incest & was due to be hanged until appeal. Maybe it really is about religion & not just politics? I think Iranian situation not as wide spead & poverty a contributing factor...
What about the Liverpool teacher in Sudan facing 40 lashes over the kids calling a teddy bear Muhammed?
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!!
What about it.....?
What about thousands of kids in Ireland being involuntarily fcuked-up the ass by the Christrian Brothers - including my neighbour in London? Are either indicative of their particular faith.....?
Check it out on http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7123420.stm.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!!
I've been bombarded with it by the English media all week thanks.
But what's your point here....?
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