Fans losing heart with the players??

**bwagner** · 15/11/2007, 10:28 AM

With the last group game on this Saturday a number of the Irish have pulled out ,with lets face crap excuses and fake injuries.
Andy O' Brien (for the 2nd game running)
Dunne
Foley
Harte
Douglas
Carr (retiring at 31)

After a pathetic campaign do you not think they owe us at least a half attempt to finish in a simi reasonable position in the group (whopping 3rd place if lucky) also the fact that it is a local celtic derby.

With Robbie Keane half assed displays (and his late late show rant) along with a lot more under performers what is going on ??

Steven Ireland ... need I say more.

Are these the "heroes" the young generation has to look to ?
I pity them as I grew up supporting real men who give all and there were f all early retirements !

**Stuttgart88** · 15/11/2007, 10:34 AM

O'Brien is having surgery and has a point to prove. Dunne always gives it all for Ireland. I'd be surprised if Foley's withdrawal is anything but genuine.

I partly accept the general point though and Andy Reid's comments in the press this morning p12ssed me off. We may still come 4th, 5th or 6th in this group FFS and we were out of it ages ago.

I'm glad Givens is voicing his disapproval. Much as I deride the U21s' results I think he speaks sense on this issue and oddly I like him more as senior manager than as U21 manager.

**GavinZac** · 15/11/2007, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'm glad Givens is voicing his disapproval. Much as I deride the U21s' results I think he speaks sense on this issue and oddly I like him more as senior manager than as U21 manager.

Jesus christ

dont give them ideas

**Noelys Guitar** · 15/11/2007, 10:49 AM

Givens "musings' are laughable. He has been a disaster as u21 coach. He talks about ethics in football and yet continues to collect a pay packet for a job badly done. Why not show us he is serious about "ethics" in football and stand down?

**GavinZac** · 15/11/2007, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Givens "musings' are laughable. He has been a disaster as u21 coach. He talks about ethics in football and yet continues to collect a pay packet for a job badly done. Why not show us he is serious about "ethics" in football and stand down?

the man's "ethics" involve pimping any LOI based u21's to his contacts in english football.

**Dodge** · 15/11/2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

the man's "ethics" involve pimping any LOI based u21's to his contacts in english football.

I think of local based u21s only Doyle and O'Donovan have moved to Britain. And we all know that Givens wasn't involved there

**GavinZac** · 15/11/2007, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I think of local based u21s only Doyle and O'Donovan have moved to Britain. And we all know that Givens wasn't involved there

His lack of success doesnt mean he doesnt regularly attempt it, dodge. from the horse's mouth.

**youngirish** · 15/11/2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I think of local based u21s only Doyle and O'Donovan have moved to Britain. And we all know that Givens wasn't involved there

Ward too.

**Dodge** · 15/11/2007, 11:09 AM

Fair point...

**btid1** · 15/11/2007, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by bwagner

With the last group game on this Saturday a number of the Irish have pulled out ,with lets face crap excuses and fake injuries.
Andy O' Brien (for the 2nd game running)
Dunne
Foley
Harte
Douglas
Carr (retiring at 31)

After a pathetic campaign do you not think they owe us at least a half attempt to finish in a simi reasonable position in the group (whopping 3rd place if lucky) also the fact that it is a local celtic derby.

With Robbie Keane half assed displays (and his late late show rant) along with a lot more under performers what is going on ??

Steven Ireland ... need I say more.

Are these the "heroes" the young generation has to look to ?
I pity them as I grew up supporting real men who give all and there were f all early retirements !

I will sum all this up for you in 3 words:

DO THEY CARE?????

In my opinion there are a few who do.Dunne being one of them.I genuinely think he would stick his head in the way of an oncoming train for Ireland.Given does,Finnan does along with a few others.

There are a select few however who when the going gets tough simply take the easy option.The captain is one of these players.Lets be honest he is a great talent and there is no disputing that.However his attitude just doesnt always match his talent.When things are going for you it is easy to get stuck in.It is however when things are going against you that the true bravehearts come to the fore.When things are going badly real effort is needed and real leaders become obvious.

Other players simply are not committed.Andy O'Brien is one of these.Less said about S. Ireland the better.Kelly,O'Shea,Andy Reid simply dont convince me of their desire to play for their country.O'Shea's half arsed tackle in Slovakia demonstrates this.

A small country like Ireland needs everyone giving 110% to punch above its weight.The Irish team has always been greater than the sum of its individual parts.In recent times however this desire seems to have evaporated and we are being shown up for the poor team we are in many positions.

A new manager has to recapture that old team spirit if they are to be a success.I dont know how they will do that as I cant see a magic formula but pride in wearing the green jersey must return if we are to have a return to the glory days and qualification for major championships.

The rebuilding process starts on Saturday and any potential manager will be watching for a display of the right attitude as the first building block in a new era.

Hope I havent depressed too many with that rant.Now lets go to Cardiff and at least enjoy ourselves some way!

**RogerMilla** · 15/11/2007, 11:15 AM

going pack to the original post i have to agree that the fans are completely disillusioned with the players at the moment. Stan must take some blame of course but the fact is that switzerland at home under kerr , san marino away under stan and cyprus at home were three pathetic gutless performances and we as fans dont ask for wins in every game but we do expect 200% effort.
Perhaps for reasons that some players are hiding , dont respect their manager, are saving their best efforts for club football ( in fairness i can see that they are employed by these clubs) or that they just treat the trip as a jolly but nonetheless the green jersey is being devalued. We could have a thread here to discuss which players i mean but the bottom line is this...
I would like the new manager to get his full squad and B team squad together and give them all the option of early retirement. No more phoning in your performance or even worse phoning in your absence for spurious reasons. He should make it clear we only want players who want to play for us and who are prepared to give all to the cause. You can talk about atmosphere at matches but one thing above all creates an atmosphere and that is a team who is doing their damndest to get a result be it putting 13 past san marino or gettign a lucky draw away to a footballing superpower.
I don't want the old days back , I want a new era and so do all Irish fans.

**bwagner** · 15/11/2007, 11:20 AM

[QUOTE=btid1;815380]I will sum all this up for you in 3 words:

DO THEY CARE?????

Do they **** - maybe 2 -3 players but look at even some of Finnan displays (cyprus for a start)

A small country does not wash one bit with me anymore - 20 + players in the premiership with a descent support cast.

Look at the bums the northerners have and they have beaten Sweden, England,Spain and drew with the Danish and Swedes in the past 3 years

**Noelys Guitar** · 15/11/2007, 11:44 AM

Before Charlton took over I and many other fans had began to question the attitude of the then team. Stapleton's waving into the camera while coming off the pitch in Switzerland in a dire 0-0 did not go down well. Brady cracking open Champagne in the team hotel after another away defeat. The situation seemed hopeless at the time. Chartlon took over and Stapleton and the team found a new lease of life. We still have some very good players with the right attitudes ie Dunne, Given, Hunt, McShane, Doyle. We just need a proper manager.

**RogerMilla** · 15/11/2007, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Before Charlton took over I and many other fans had began to question the attitude of the then team. Stapleton's waving into the camera while coming off the pitch in Switzerland in a dire 0-0 did not go down well. Brady cracking open Champagne in the team hotel after another away defeat. The situation seemed hopeless at the time. Chartlon took over and Stapleton and the team found a new lease of life. We still have some very good players with the right attitudes ie Dunne, Given, Hunt, McShane, Doyle. We just need a proper manager.

the thing is it's such an important decision it shouldnt really be left to a shower like the FAI !!

**eirebhoy** · 15/11/2007, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by bwagner

Do they **** - maybe 2 -3 players but look at even some of Finnan displays (cyprus for a start)

You have to try and differentiate between playing badly and lacking effort.

**mypost** · 15/11/2007, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by bwagner

With the last group game on this Saturday a number of the Irish have pulled out ,with lets face crap excuses and fake injuries.

After a pathetic campaign do you not think they owe us at least a half attempt to finish in a simi reasonable position in the group (whopping 3rd place if lucky) also the fact that it is a local celtic derby.

With Robbie Keane half assed displays (and his late late show rant) along with a lot more under performers what is going on ??

Steven Ireland ... need I say more.

Are these the "heroes" the young generation has to look to ?
I pity them as I grew up supporting real men who give all and there were f all early retirements !

Tbh, no one on either side gives a flying 4x about this game. Once you're out of the competition, games like this and the Cyprus one beforehand are meaningless. Even the fans don't give a damn, with the poor crowd expected. The game against Brazil in February is more important, what with a new boss in place, a (hopefully full strength) motivated squad, and a full house. As Ireland fans, we'll watch it of course, but honestly, we need this game on Saturday like a hole in the head.

So what if we finish 3rd, or even 6th in the group. We're still going to get a hard draw in the WC next week regardless.

**Theskinloyal** · 15/11/2007, 12:02 PM

Do you remember the days when there was not such thing as international retirement?

There was just retirement.

Imagine one of the Charlton era players saying he was retiring but just from Internationals. Charlton would have eaten him alive.

They go on about the demands of the professional game etc. What a load of me arse! Players nowadays are in far better conditioning than previous years. With expert diets and what not. Plus there isn't even as many teams in the top flight in England as there used to be. I firmly believe the main reason for international retirement is complete lack of interest.

Good riddance

**RogerMilla** · 15/11/2007, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Theskinloyal

Good riddance

what he said.

**Torn-Ado** · 15/11/2007, 12:07 PM

To be honest, I reckon the players will perform better at the weekend.

No chance of qualifying and no manager. Its just like a friendly and we all know how good we are at friendlies and how ****e we are under pressure. Robbie Keane will probably score a hattrick an'all.

**youngirish** · 15/11/2007, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

To be honest, I reckon the players will perform better at the weekend.

No chance of qualifying and no manager. Its just like a friendly and we all know how good we are at friendlies and how ****e we are under pressure. Robbie Keane will probably score a hattrick an'all.

Hopefully not as the FAI will then stick Don Givens top of their World Class managers list and appoint him fulltime.