Arsenal

[see's it]

homegrown talent is a thing of the past with the big clubs and not just in england the next best thing is buying youngsters at 15/16 make trying to make them into players
just on utd i think neville and scholes are the only homegrown players left also they havent brought a player through since them aswell

[shanman2]

homegrown talent is a thing of the past with the big clubs and not just in england the next best thing is buying youngsters at 15/16 make trying to make them into players
just on utd i think neville and scholes are the only homegrown players left also they havent brought a player through since them aswell

If you want to be really technical- OShea, Fletcher, Pique, Gibson(1 of only 4 irish players registered to play champions league), Evans X2, Martin, Shawcross, Cathcart, Brandy and Simpson to name but a few.

[cheifo]

If you want to be really technical- OShea, Fletcher, Pique, Gibson(1 of only 4 irish players registered to play champions league), Evans X2, Martin, Shawcross, Cathcart, Brandy and Simpson to name but a few.

That list represents FIVE different national teams....well if you want to be really technical.

[Stuttgart88]

I personally have always loved teams who win trophies using home grown players. AC Milan, Ajax, United, Barcelona, Marseille(although later relieved of the trophy) Porto, Bayern Munchen etc are all clubs you have to admire greatly. Home grown talent for me is the most important thing about a club is there any better feeling than seeing the young lad who signed for a club as a 12 year old go on to become a legend at a club. Thats what football is about after all not bringing half of Clairefontaine and Africa to a club in search of the holy grail.....

But apart from the extraordinary success of the 1992 youth team vintage has United, or any other team, been a shining beacon in this regard since then?

Liverpool have been successful in the youth cup recently yet promote nobody. Ipswich won the youth cup (with 5-6 Irish on board too) 2 years ago and a good portion of this team is still involved. Where? In the Championship. Why? Because the bar has been set so high in the Premiership (Chelsea as good as won 8 or 9 games out of every ten) that taking a chance on youth was almost guaraneed to set you off the pace.

[Stuttgart88]

How is Pique any different to the Arsenal players you refer to? Or Anderson or nanni or whoever?

O'Shea and Fletcher are hardly fans' favourites are they? Useful sqaud fillers but nothing else.

[Roadend]

I personally have always loved teams who win trophies using home grown players. AC Milan, Ajax, United, Barcelona, Marseille(although later relieved of the trophy) Porto, Bayern Munchen etc are all clubs you have to admire greatly. Home grown talent for me is the most important thing about a club

Peter Schmeichel
Gary Neville
Jaap Stam
Ronny Johnsen
Denis Irwin
Ryan Giggs
Nicky Butt
David Beckham
Jesper Blomqvist
Andy Cole
Dwight Yorke

The side was packed with homegrown talent alright.

Barca had 3 spanish players in the 2006 winning side, Bayern had 4 German starters in '01

[Macy]

4 that had been with United from school boys, would've been 5 if it wasn't for the Scholes suspension. 4 out of those 5 are from Manchester/ Salford.

Wenger is a great talent spotter. It'd be wrong to suggest he's genuinely bringing through players when he's buying them in at 16/17 when the real technical development has been done. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just different from what he's credited for.

As for overall, the statistics speak for themselves. Credit to Wenger for being the only one that's been able to last the pace and keep bringing teams to challenge United. Everyone else has been couple of seasons wonder.

btw It's not surprising that people with no geographic connection to the team they support write off the benefits of homegrown players. I know at United there's always a special place with the fans for the hometown players. It's obvious enough that someone Dublin, Galway wherever isn't going to "get" that.

btw2 I noticed a couple of references to Kidd's youth team as if it was nothing to do with Ferguson. That just shows a total lack of knowledge as to how Ferguson totally rebuilt the youth structure of United when he took over. He put in place the right people that made it a success. Also plenty of others (other than Fergie or Kidd) working in the background that brought through those players.

[shanman2]

4 that had been with United from school boys, would've been 5 if it wasn't for the Scholes suspension. 4 out of those 5 are from Manchester/ Salford.

Wenger is a great talent spotter. It'd be wrong to suggest he's genuinely bringing through players when he's buying them in at 16/17 when the real technical development has been done. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just different from what he's credited for.

As for overall, the statistics speak for themselves. Credit to Wenger for being the only one that's been able to last the pace and keep bringing teams to challenge United. Everyone else has been couple of seasons wonder.

btw It's not surprising that people with no geographic connection to the team they support write off the benefits of homegrown players. I know at United there's always a special place with the fans for the hometown players. It's obvious enough that someone Dublin, Galway wherever isn't going to "get" that.

btw2 I noticed a couple of references to Kidd's youth team as if it was nothing to do with Ferguson. That just shows a total lack of knowledge as to how Ferguson totally rebuilt the youth structure of United when he took over. He put in place the right people that made it a success. Also plenty of others (other than Fergie or Kidd) working in the background that brought through those players.

Thats the most sensible post yet. 15 of Uniteds squad have "no previous club" beside their names as oppossed to 7 of Arsenals. Ferguson love him or hate him. Set up one the most productive youth systems the world has ever seen or will ever see!! Wenger has a great footballing side yet again but it aint english! it plays in the premier league thats about it...

[see's it]

Thats the most sensible post yet. 15 of Uniteds squad have "no previous club" beside their names as oppossed to 7 of Arsenals. Ferguson love him or hate him. Set up one the most productive youth systems the world has ever seen or will ever see!! Wenger has a great footballing side yet again but it aint english! it plays in the premier league thats about it...

and utd fans wonder then why their hated

[osarusan]

Set up one the most productive youth systems the world has ever seen or will ever see!!

To be fair, this is ludicrous.

here are some the names you offer in support -

OShea, Fletcher, Pique, Gibson(1 of only 4 irish players registered to play champions league), Evans X2, Martin, Shawcross, Cathcart, Brandy and Simpson to name but a few.

Not exactly household names, most of them.

On Champions League night, you say -
I personally have always loved teams who win trophies using home grown players. AC Milan, Ajax, United, Barcelona, Marseille(although later relieved of the trophy) Porto, Bayern Munchen etc are all clubs you have to admire greatly.

But from the starting 11, only 4 were English, and Andy Cole came from a diffrerent club, plus Giggs. I

On the other hand, 10 of the Bayern starters were German. You must have been really rooting for them.

[shanman2]

[QUOTE=osarusan;819109]To be fair, this is ludicrous.


What is ludicrous about it?. The lads I named have been at the club since they were kids. What do you class as a good youth system?. Buying in players at 17/18 or signing them as 10/11 year olds. United have a history of building a great sides from youth set ups. Arsenal dont!!
I dont support Man Utd I just think that the Arsenal fans are talking shti bout Wenger and the "youth system" because it isn't Wenger has the best Scouting system in the world. Lets pray the qouta on foreigners is passed then Wenger will shti a brick...

[John83]

...On the other hand, 10 of the Bayern starters were German. You must have been really rooting for them.

I don't want to get into this debate, but Bayern have a history of sucking all of the domestic talent into their clutches. For example, Deisler and Ballach were given large fees to sign pre-contracts 18 months before their contracts expired, so their clubs earned no fees for them. The practice was made illegal shortly afterwards - you can't sign a pre-contract that far ahead now. There's a reason the Bundesliga is often a one team league.

[osarusan]

I don't want to get into this debate, but Bayern have a history of sucking all of the domestic talent into their clutches. For example, Deisler and Ballach were given large fees to sign pre-contracts 18 months before their contracts expired, so their clubs earned no fees for them. The practice was made illegal shortly afterwards - you can't sign a pre-contract that far ahead now. There's a reason the Bundesliga is often a one team league.

I'm not commenting on their youth policy (although I had no idea about what you've just posted, it is interesting), just pointing out that they were all from the country their club plays in.

[BrayUnknowns]

In that case the ideal situation would be Rooney lining out for his boyhood club Everton not athe club most scousers grow up hating who paid millions for him.What about East End London boy Rio(35 million) Geordie Carrick (18 million)Tevez(not sure what his franchise fee is this year),Ronaldo(12 million)Nani&Anderson(40 million combined?)
Vidic,Evra,Saha,Hargreaves(25 million) and of course there was the whole Veron debacle.Yes there was the UTD golden gerneration which came through maybe ten years ago but Arsenal had keown,Adams,Parlour,Cole etc.
Man U are no Ajax they are the biggest buyers of ready made talent after Chelsea.I prefer Wengers method of identifying raw talent and developing them into great players.Whether they are English or not is irrelevant.

Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Nani, Anderson, Vidic, Evra etc... None were ready made world class players when signing for united in fairness - all young ldas with raw talents which SFA thought he could turn into world class players. Vidic would be one of the best examples IMO, no one knew of him when he signed and everyone thought SFA had really lost the plot for real, after a tough start has now turned into one of the best centre halfs in the EPL.

In saying that there is no doubting that Wengers scouts are absolutely superb !

[Steve Bruce]

Linfield are the most successful team in the world and we ahve a team full of home grown talent

[gustavo]

Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Nani, Anderson, Vidic, Evra etc... None were ready made world class players when signing for united in fairness - all young ldas with raw talents which SFA thought he could turn into world class players. Vidic would be one of the best examples IMO, no one knew of him when he signed and everyone thought SFA had really lost the plot for real, after a tough start has now turned into one of the best centre halfs in the EPL.

In saying that there is no doubting that Wengers scouts are absolutely superb !

in Rooneys and Tevezs case especially , it was hardly a shot in the dark when he was going to sign them , at the time of both signings most of the top teams in the world would have liked to have them both . Evra had already played in a Champions League final and was in the French squad before he had signed him so again hardly a raw young fella

[osarusan]

Nani, Anderson,

I'd agree with what Gustavo said and add that the above two

not ready made world class players when signing for united in fairness

are still not world class players by any means.

[shanman2]

in Rooneys and Tevezs case especially , it was hardly a shot in the dark when he was going to sign them , at the time of both signings most of the top teams in the world would have liked to have them both . Evra had already played in a Champions League final and was in the French squad before he had signed him so again hardly a raw young fella

Carlos Tevez got in massive trouble with Corinthians when he was younger for wearing a Man Utd jersey he was spotted long before West Ham knew who he was. Remember back to the first 3 or 4 games Evra played he was ridiculed by the media after the Man City match in particular. He disappeared for 3/4 months and came back twice the player, same applied to Vidic. United knew well what they were doing signing them. Have you finally accepted what Im saying Osarusan bout Arsenal.

[osarusan]

Have you finally accepted what Im saying Osarusan bout Arsenal.

If you were more careful, you'd have noticed that nowhere on this thread have I said Wenger has a good youth policy. As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have one.

However you aren't more careful, so you didn't notice.

If you want to argue that Wenger's youth policy is poor, there are better ways to do it than to exaggerate the success of Man United's youth policy.

[osarusan]

Carlos Tevez got in massive trouble with Corinthians when he was younger for wearing a Man Utd jersey he was spotted long before West Ham knew who he was.

So fu*king what. Surely, surely, surely, you wouldn't be so silly as to offer this as evidence of Man. United's youth policy. Tevez was already world famous when Man. United signed him.