Dublin Bus Strike

[BohsPartisan]

If anything the media are biased in favour of unions as the vast majority of them are in the NUJ. Can you work for a newspaper without being an NUJ member? If Dublin Bus strikers ahd a valid case I am sure their comrades would back them up.

We should have a Daft Post of the Month competition.


The media is owned by Billionaires in the case of the private media and controlled by the pro-capitalist/neo-liberal state/government in the case of the national broadcaster. Journalists know which side their bread is buttered on and it clearly isn't the workers' side.

[Macy]

If anything the media are biased in favour of unions as the vast majority of them are in the NUJ. Can you work for a newspaper without being an NUJ member? If Dublin Bus strikers ahd a valid case I am sure their comrades would back them up.

Come off it pete, this has to be a wind up? Journalists have got pulled off stories in the last couple of years because they were being too balanced (not even pro union), at the same time as the main protagonists on the management side were given columns!

[Dodge]

If anything the media are biased in favour of unions as the vast majority of them are in the NUJ

Without a doubt the worst arguement ever put forward in the current affairs forum

[Student Mullet]

Everyone thinks that the media is biased against them. It's because you tend to remember the articles disagreeing with you more than the ones agreeing.

[BohsPartisan]

Everyone thinks that the media is biased against them. It's because you tend to remember the articles disagreeing with you more than the ones agreeing.

I disagree. The media have always been anti-union and anti-worker.

[pete]

I see the start of competition for Dublin Bus with the Swords Express service & no public subsidy. They seem to be running service throughout the day too & not just cherry picking the peak times. I am not familiar with the route but apparently it is in competition with 41X & I assume if that service (cheaper) was good would be no room for private operator.

Competition can only be good for the consumer as long as no private monopolies to go alongside the public one.

I checked the Dublin Bus website & takes approx 50 minutes to get from Harristown to City centre on regular bus service. I get that Dublin Bus workers would strike if they changed the colour of the buses.

Incidentally big changes in France in relation to opinions on unions. Government elected on mandate of change & apparently for first time possibly ever majority of people opposed the transport worker strike before it started. Apparently train workers in France can retire at 50 with full pensions. Insanity!

[Ceirtlis]

I see the start of competition for Dublin Bus with the Swords Express service & no public subsidy. They seem to be running service throughout the day too & not just cherry picking the peak times. I am not familiar with the route but apparently it is in competition with 41X & I assume if that service (cheaper) was good would be no room for private operator.

Competition can only be good for the consumer as long as no private monopolies to go alongside the public one.

I checked the Dublin Bus website & takes approx 50 minutes to get from Harristown to City centre on regular bus service. I get that Dublin Bus workers would strike if they changed the colour of the buses.

Incidentally big changes in France in relation to opinions on unions. Government elected on mandate of change & apparently for first time possibly ever majority of people opposed the transport worker strike before it started. Apparently train workers in France can retire at 50 with full pensions. Insanity!

Theres a bus company called circle line that runs from Nutgrove to Celbridge as well, apparently its fairly good havent been on it myself though.

[Dodge]

Apparently train workers in France can retire at 50 with full pensions. Insanity!

Same in Guinness. Plenty or large private sector jobs with pension only require 30/35 years service

[pete]

Same in Guinness. Plenty or large private sector jobs with pension only require 30/35 years service

That is their choice. Private companies can pay people not to work if they like. I would love a job like that too but will you pay for it?

[Dodge]

That is their choice. Private companies can pay people not to work if they like. I would love a job like that too but will you pay for it?

WTF?!! Just go to France a become a train driver

Are you just randomly spouting things you don't like now?

[pete]

WTF?!! Just go to France a become a train driver

Are you just randomly spouting things you don't like now?

I mentioned in the context of unions protesting about issues no sane individual could defend. When the French public are opposing strikes it is a sign that their future is near an end.

[Schumi]

Theres a bus company called circle line that runs from Nutgrove to Celbridge as well, apparently its fairly good havent been on it myself though.

Seen them around, never seen more than two people on them though.

[Lim till i die]

When the French public are opposing strikes it is a sign that their future is near an end.

What, all the French people??

I think you'll see Sarkozy in the grave before the French left somehow pete.

I would imagine the majority (again how big?) protesting is down to the fact that after they drag on for awhile public transport strikes are an unholy nuisance

[BohsPartisan]

I am not familiar with the route but apparently it is in competition with 41X & I assume if that service (cheaper) was good would be no room for private operator.

The private operator has exclusive rights to use the port tunnel. You get in in no time. Dublin bus were prevented by the government from using that route. It was actually kept idle since the opening of the tunnel just so it could be given to a private operator.
If this is competition - its rigged!

The belief that competition is good for the consumer is one that has been drummed into us by the media and tools like Eddie Hobbs for some time. Lets look at this objectively if we can for a minute. Where is the competition in the case of the example Pete gave. The private operator is given a plum route by the government. The state company is left with having to do a full circuit of Swords - by government dictat - before it even starts out towards the city centre. They are not in competition because they are not on the same route.
In England where all public transport is privatised there is no competition - it cannot exist in public transport! Take Liverpool as an example I am very familiar with. Stagecoach run some routes and Arriva others. If you live in Everton valley, you have to get a stagecoach bus. If you are out in Speke you have to get an Arriva one. Where's the competition?
Same applies for the rail service over there. I could go on and on.
Dublin Bus provides a public service. It does not exist to make a profit. It exists to move people around the city. It has to run some extremely unprofitable routes. With the severe lack of funding it gets it needs the profitable ones to stay afloat. This is nothing if not the good old fashioned Thatcherite method of sewing discontent in public services through deliberate underfunding and mismanagement so they can throw then out to their fat cat friends to make a killing.

Socialist piece on the outcome of the strike

And on the situation in France

[Macy]

The private operator has exclusive rights to use the port tunnel. You get in in no time. Dublin bus were prevented by the government from using that route. It was actually kept idle since the opening of the tunnel just so it could be given to a private operator.
If this is competition - its rigged!

Dublin Bus had actually started running buses through the port tunnel and were banned when it was found out. They were blocked by the same minister who launched the private service and saying how great it was that new routes were being provided by the private sector.

Every privatisation and de-regulation has been a farce in this country. Now, there may be an arguable case in larger markets (probably not a convincing one), but it's clear that the Irish market isn't substantial enough. Markets have to be rigged to allow the private companies to make profits and enter the market, which means higher prices for consumers not lower prices. So essentially what is the point, bar misguided ideology?

[Student Mullet]

Dublin Bus had actually started running buses through the port tunnel and were banned when it was found out. They were blocked by the same minister who launched the private service and saying how great it was that new routes were being provided by the private sector.

Every privatisation and de-regulation has been a farce in this country. Now, there may be an arguable case in larger markets (probably not a convincing one), but it's clear that the Irish market isn't substantial enough. Markets have to be rigged to allow the private companies to make profits and enter the market, which means higher prices for consumers not lower prices. So essentially what is the point, bar misguided ideology?

I think that's only half true. There are lots of industries where competition is perfectly sensible and others where it doesn't work.

[Macy]

I think that's only half true. There are lots of industries where competition is perfectly sensible and others where it doesn't work.

There's not really industries that are public left are there? What's left is our strategic infrastructure and key public services.

[OneRedArmy]

Now, there may be an arguable case in larger markets (probably not a convincing one), but it's clear that the Irish market isn't substantial enough.

Macy, you seem to be scathing of sweeping generalisations when used in the "unions are evil" context, but yet use them yourself in the context of privatisation, which reads akin to "big business is bad"!

The Aircoach service is a prime example of a successful private sector bus enterprise.

As Student Mullet says, there are cases where public sector provision suits (or possible public sector support of the private sector, eg through PSO) and cases where private sector is better. They can and do co-exist happily.

I do agree that privatisations have been mishandled by and large, but this doesn't necessarily make them a bad idea, it simply reflects on the clowns who handled the privatisation.

[Macy]

No, I'm genuinely not. I'm saying if the case is that competition is better then it should be able to do so without market interference.

Air Coach has been a success - would the Department of Transport allow another firm, let alone Dublin Bus compete on that route? Even where there are private operators there isn't competition - there is a private sector monopoly.

We want competition in the health insurance market - lets make VHI put up it's prices to bring companies in. We want competition in the electricity market - lets put up electricity prices to bring companies in. We want competition in the transport sector - let's restrict routes to one operator only. What benefit is for the actual consumer, rather than the owners of the privately help competition?

Even that supposed example of how competition works, Ryanair, was given a leg up by Government stopping Aer Lingus competing on the certain routes.

Government privatisations/ de-regulations should be all about the consumer. Unfortunately, they've all been ideologically driven not consumer driven.

[OneRedArmy]

I'd imagine the constraint to a private sector competitor to Aircoach is simply the lack of space at Dublin Airport.

In terms of health insurance, the equalisation payments that underpin community rating (everyone paying the same) create the problem. A true market-based system would do away with community rating but as we are still pretending we have a public health system in Ireland this is apparently unacceptable.

In general terms, the approach to privatisation is one of opening up markets slowly to competition by regulating entry to the sector (a la most of the examples you have provided) versus a big bang type approach, which whilst probably beneficial in the long-term for the customer (Darwinian evolution, only the strongest survive and the price is what the market can bear) creates market disruption and the potential for hugely varying prices and levels of service in the short-term.

As for your airline example, whilst that may have been true in the past, not sure that type of government interference is occuring now?