Raffle Tickets and Club Licence

**Nempton** · 17/05/2003, 1:11 PM

On Thursday night as we entered the ground we bought a couple of tickets which we were happy to do and support the club. However and this is not the first time that it happened, the club forgot to hold the draw. It didn't dawn on any of us at half time because we were just glad to get in from the cold and enjoy a drink. Towards the end of the match I approached Michael O'Sullivan and asked him what the winning raffle ticket numbers were. He mumbled something and ran off telling me to ask someone in the background. I asked around but it became clear that they didn't hold the draw. Now I was annoyed at this not because of a couple of euro but the extent to which it shows the incompetence and inability within the committee. If they are incapable of pulling a raffle ticket out and announcing the number are they really fit to run a club like Limerick. This leads onto the club licence. Limericks future lies in the hands of the committee. The club licencing is very detailed and precise in what it wants. Outside of a stadia which we don't have, the other requirements of the club licence as of yet, nothing has been done by the committee. The deadline is the end of November. This is something were you cannot fill in the form the night before but rather something which needs to be addressed now and the ability to plan for the future. During the past week Derry announced a new academy for youngsters where they will supply 6 coaches. They have launched the academy now so that they can get their underage teams (which has to be a minimum of three from the following U-12, U-14, U-16 and U-18) up and running before the deadline. The six coaches are starting to get their Uefa coaching badges and have a head coach in place to run the academy, all of which are requirements in the club licencing. While this is going on the tumbleweed keeps blowing through Limerick. I think the committee need to wake up to the impending club licence and the threat of being evicted from the Eircom League because at the moment I don't think that they would be capable of securing the provisional licence which would secure our place in the first divison for next season.

**deise deserter** · 17/05/2003, 3:38 PM

Nempton:

This is why we need to get much more involved arrangement with the club. We have all listened to a certain fan's rants over the past number of years, but the more and more we see things like this going on, the more and more I am slowly coming around to thoughts similiar to his.

Smalltime.

It says it all. Committee-wise, we plan for the next game and no further. If there isn't an opening of the doors of the old boy's club we won't be watching Limerick FC in a couple of years.

It's a pity because we have seen progress in the management/coaching side of things in the past few months. We now have a coaching staff in the place of Noel who wanted to go it all on his own. The standard of drills and warm-ups this season is light-years ahead of last season.

We were promised a meeting where everyone would get involved to help to make the licensing. The meeting has never turned up, and whats more I don't think it ever will.

lims fan · 17/05/2003, 5:30 PM

and when these oafs can't even pull a ticket out of a hat (and i am sure that is the extent of their sophisticated draw making procedures) we all know that they are going to **** up this licencing thing as well. These people are not football men, they are not progressive, they cannot see beyong the next game and they are not interested in what the fans have to say in particular when it is fair criticism of them
Lets face it lads this committee has not done 1 single thing of any significance and they are solely responsible for clubs affairs and didn't even have the basic decency to hold a meeting as PROMISED with the fans.
They want to stay in division 1 - they don't want premier football and they don't give a **** about us fans either.
C'mon the blues!

**gael353** · 19/05/2003, 12:28 PM

was meant to be on in february??? now loads of excuses have been put forward at the time for not having it but nothing has happened. And aware that some committee members are readiing this, i would like to point out that with Limerick senior soccers tradition of moneys going missing and a general lack of trust (not drawing the ticket) is proving to be a problem in attracting persons into the supporters club not to mind up to southill. so word to the commitee...set up a meeting soon (like this century) buy back limerickfc.com and let the people who know how to run it ie the supporters look after it.

**LFC in Exile** · 19/05/2003, 1:12 PM

Gael, one should be very careful about innuendo and loose comments like that. I don't think anyone is suggesting at all that money is missing or anything underhand is going on. Incompetence is one thing, dishonesty is another.

I agree with most of the posts here, a meeting should be called where the fans can input. There are positive ideas out there and people willing to put them into practise e.g. Dave's website and the ability to use his photos to raise club profile locally. Also, the flag campaign has worked very well and has shown little things can be done to improve the situation, which altogether add up to big improvement. I am also worried about the licensing arrangements. Perhaps the committee believe that the link with Pike is going to satisfy in relation to underage teams? These are things that the supporters of the club are entitled to know about.

I think however that the problem here is more fundamental than a dysfunctional committee. I think any one of us would be defensive if we were in the position of those on the committee. Nempton's comments are fair. The other comments are very confrontational. Why would a committee member opne themselves therefore to a disorganised, some bitter, set of supporters who may have different agendas? The committee may see the 'meeting' as a chance to bash the committee. From reports of the last meeting it is clear that there were those there simply to hurl abuse and then leave. Who would want to set themselves up for that? I am not for one second saying that it is right not to have this meeting but I do think we have to appreciate the position of individuals on teh committee.

The way information is bled from the club is a serious problem. A fundamental difficulty is that the supporters are not organised. As long as that is the case then why should the committee take a blind bit of notice when one of us goes off on one. Why are we waiting for the club to organise a meeting for us to go to? We can get the same information, indeed we can be a positive influence if we become organised ourselves and then approach the club as a supporters club with good ideas and a plan to implement them.

There have been lots of talk down the last season and a half about a supporters club. And it is vital to give the SC some legitimacy it has to extend beyond those involved on these web pages.

**JohnD** · 19/05/2003, 1:32 PM

I totally agree with the last post. Lets stop talking about the supporters club and start it now. We need to get organised and it will create a formal relationship between the "Club" and ourselves. We will be better positioned to further change by working with the committee to improve matters. However this works both ways and the current encumbents on the committee must listen to the supporters, criticism and praise, and not carry a siege mentality about with them. We all have the same goal at heart..havent we ??

**sadloserkid** · 19/05/2003, 1:53 PM

Ok some points...

1. The Supporters Club

I agree that it needs to be organised properly and set in place as soon as possible. The problem is getting a date that suits everybody. If people want I'll ask around and try and arrange a meeting within the next month? The draft proposed by LFC In Exile is an excellent framework for us to build upon. Once the supporters club is up and running we need to try and get a place on the committee for our members. This should not be somebody who will conflict needlessly with the committee but nor should it be somebody who will simply smile and nod approvingly at the meetings. We can discuss all this further at the meeting we organise ourselves.

2. The Committee

First off I don't think they're fiddling money. I feel they're doing their best and have the club at heart. They have made some improvements in the clubs off-field standing. Those are all good things. On the other hand though you have some problems. They're a bitterly divided group. At the moment they're absolutely unaccountable to anybody which isn't appropriate. And then there's the whole can of worms about how open they should be with supporters. The committee seems to have little trust for the majority of the club's supporters. The supporters don't trust the committee enough either. I've lost count of all the times that I've stressed the need for committee and supporters both to cop and work together.

The meeting supposed to be held in January should have been held. I appreciate and accept that there may have been concerns about a repeat of the last one when the fossils at the back basically yelled for a while. However by refusing to meet with younger, genuine fans as well as that element the club is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face. In December the committee was honest enough to admit that it needed and wanted help. Six months on, it appears to have changed it's mind on that score. Which brings me nicely onto...

3. The Club License

I don't think we'll be kicked out because I don't think the FAI is going to follow the UEFA guideline to the letter. But there's every chance that if we were to sneak up this year we won't be allowed into the Premier next season. I've been in touch with people in the FAI about this and it looks as though that's how it could go. Somebody told me that Pike don't have under-age teams so that aspect of the license wouldn't appear to be covered by the link up with Pike. We have an awful lot of work to do here or else regardless of how well we do on the field we'll be left in the First Division anyway... The plans are now in place for a ground anyway and if they come to fruition I'll be more than satisfied with that side of things but the club also has to appoint things like media officers. This should not be limited to the existing status quo but rather opened up to the public at large. Who knows what kind of talent could be uncovered this way?

4. On The Field

On the field we've come a long way this year and I don't think anybody can deny that. We're playing good football and we have a good team. Our squad is still a little bit light but we're only a couple of players away from being really competitive. The play-offs are a realistic goal this year. Mike Kerley has done well so far and confidence appears to be quite high in the camp. The club as a whole deserve credit for that. Credit also to Mike for increasing his coaching roster to include himself, Derek Whyte (legend!) and Kevin Fitzpatrick. We now have the same amount of coaches for our first team as Cork City. This offsets somewhat the fact that we don't have an U-21 team, much less an U-18 one!

Conclusion

As LFC In Exile said we have to organise ourselves rather than waiting for others to organise. Let's sort ourselves out this time, properly, formally and seriously. Then we can do things like run a fanzine (perhaps at bi-monthly intervals at first), combine the existing websites into one Official Supporters Club Website and maybe organise a couple of fundraisers ourselves. This money can then be used to do things like run buses to away games, buy training equipment for Mike and the players, organise more flags, maybe a drum. If we wanted to go down that road we could also sponsor a player or a match. We could ensure that the Player of the Season award is an annual one. The skies the limit! As LFCIE points out though, we have to organise first!

Yours in

slk

**gael353** · 19/05/2003, 3:34 PM

Ahhh i think you picked me up wrong LFC IN EXILE. no inuendo used at all , and i never suggested that monies were gone missing. i simply said or maybe i didnt that in times past moneys have gone missing and no im not saying mos, jp or rmm are running off with it christ stop giving them reasons to ban me from the pike!!!! the one thing i said was that trust has to be built between the club and the supporters. Oh one thing btw Torquey Uniteds chairman and whole board were all arrested on the last day of the season due to a half time draw not being awarded. Oh ill finish with we need a meeting we meed a meeting we need a meeting. good to see a bit of missunderstanding leads to good debate though

**Nempton** · 19/05/2003, 5:10 PM

I think it is fair to say that comparisons can be made with us the supporters and the committee in that we have talked a lot about getting organised and what we are going to do, but nothing ever really materialises. All we see from both parties is small things once in a blue moon. At the start of the season I brought up the issue of the supporters getting organised because I think it is very important in relation to the club licence and to Limerick in general. I know LFC in Exile at the time agreed with me along with a few others. I don't want to stand around and be powerless but rather have some medium were I feel I can contribute something to Limerick. The Supporters Club is that medium and offers us the opportunity to give a whole lot more to Limerick. Now I am in no positon to get things started and can only voice my support because of where I am residing at the moment and won't be back living in Limerick until September. So I and those of us who are unable to get in frequently to Limerick are dependent on ye who live there. The onus is on ye to get things up and running. I feel the next home match is the perfect location to hold such a meeting whether it is at half time or after the match. If everybody else is in agreement with this as a suitable time and place then lets get things started. I'll try my best to get in for the Galway match and to lend any support I can that night. I agree that the relationship between supporters and committee is poor but I feel that a supporters club can bridge that problem. However I feel it should not be used as a device to voice personal dislike towards the committee but rather to help improve Limerick FC. We should adapt a professional approach to establishing and running a Supporters Club. This is something that will have to be taken very seriously and not have people six months time drop out because they couldn't be bothered or the novelty effect has worn off. So no more talking, forget about the name calling and lets just do something positive for Limerick.

SLK, could you email me the draft that LFC in Exile wrote up because I never got it the last time and would be very interested in reading it. Thanks.

**LFC in Exile** · 20/05/2003, 7:37 AM

This really is an excellent thread and is the kind that the eL board and others are so seriously lacking in. It is clear that there are serious fans of this club around who are willing and able tomake a huge contribution the club if allowed. And it is a shame (maybe even fatal) if this is not tapped into at this stage.

I agree a lot with all that has been said before. Gael, I was only suggesting caution - just in case the thread took on a completely different life.

Can I make one suggestion. I agree that as many as possible should meet at the Galway match. The goal of this meeting though should not be to establish the supporters club, but rather to agree how we can go about establishing a supporters club. What I am trying to say is that this SC has got to be open to all supporters - not just the web posters. So, the meeting at the Galway match can decide things like how we get the word out that a club is getting started. How people canjoin. Whatthe club will be about etc etc e.g. a date and location for a bigger meeting - producing flyers to hand out at the Kildare game. I suppose the more people there the less work any on person wil have to do. The reason I suggest this - and I may be over-cautious on it - is that we should not let ourselves be open to dismissal by the club as representing a small bunch of fans and letting them put whatever spin on it they want. Ideas on this welcome. It may mean we have to deal with some of the fossils - but whoever said it would be easy.

One other thing - SLK mentioned that the supporters club should try to get a place on the committee.I don't agree - I believe complete independence is best (the committee can't be involved with the SC and the SC can't be involved with the committee). This is because we want to be in a position to constructively criticise if we want to, also sometimes the club will have to make tough decisions that the supporters will not like and how can someone on the committee disagree with it and yet have to defend it. Also, I think this is a recipe for the commitee handing a load of crap jobs over to the SC to do. Others views on that welcome too.

**sadloserkid** · 20/05/2003, 8:08 AM

Originally posted by LFC in Exile
One other thing - SLK mentioned that the supporters club should try to get a place on the committee.I don't agree - I believe complete independence is best (the committee can't be involved with the SC and the SC can't be involved with the committee). This is because we want to be in a position to constructively criticise if we want to, also sometimes the club will have to make tough decisions that the supporters will not like and how can someone on the committee disagree with it and yet have to defend it. Also, I think this is a recipe for the commitee handing a load of crap jobs over to the SC to do. Others views on that welcome too.

Well personally I think this is quite an important things to achieve but obviously democracy will rule at the end of the day. I'm not suggesting that the SC should run arm-in-arm with the committee on anything but by having a rep there we will know what is going on. It will cut out any unfair criticism of the committee because we will know what they do for once. Perhaps we should stress the independance of the SC. Regardless of the view held by the committee (including the SC rep) I feel the SC could still make as much constructive criticism/positive feedback as they feel is appropriate. And regarding the the last point you make about crap jobs being handed over. The SC rep can always refuse to accept anything for definate until it has been talked over with the rest of the SC and any of these crap jobs acan be handed straight back!

**Countyman** · 20/05/2003, 9:54 AM

Lads,

I have been reading your posts with great interest over the last while and I think you are all a credit to your club.
I dont want to butt my nose in your business here but I was involved in setting up a supporters club in Kildare at the outset of last season and just want to offer a few experiences which you may find useful .

Our biggest decision was whether to go independant or row in as an Official arm of the club. We chose the Official route and there have been good and bad experiences along the way

Good.
1. The S.C. has been the first point of call for new ideas from the club (e.g. choosing the night we play games, involvement in the set up of our new 200 club, and running player of the month/year awards independant of the club itself. ) The importance of our involvement in the new 200 club idea cannot be understated.

2. The club actively promotes us on match day (tannoy announcement) and we get our own page in the programme to say what we like.

3. We get generous discounts on club merchandise and got first view on new merchandising and jerseys etc etc.

4. We participate in all Club functions (e.g race nights / end of year award nights etc.) - good for profile.

5. The club actually listens to our gripes which we pass on from our members e.g. problem with stewarding , advertisement of games , even match day music (my own personal gripe). Usually something is done by the next game.

6. getting the lowdown of whats going on behind the scenes.

Obvioulsy a lot of this depends on the actual working relationship you may have with the club itself. Ours is excellent and I appreciate that others may not be so fortunate.

Bad

1. Basically any ideas (fundraisers / displays / advertising) need to be run by the club first . So far we haven't been shot down on anything but the danger is that you could suck up any money or doantions that may have been put into the club. Its a case of not stepping on the clubs toes.

2. We want to sell our own merchandise to members (polo shirts / jackets etc.) but our prices are way lower than the clubs and again we would gain at the clubs expense.

3. Behaviour of members is a huge factor. Over the top verbal abuse of referees / players is not tolerated by the club. The image your own S.C. portrays is important.

4. Pressure to be a fundraising arm of the club. Have to say the club have not been too bad in this respect .

Last year we started adult memberships at �20 and got 85 members. This year we dropped it to �10 and now have 124 members.

A great way of raising funds was selling tickets for our clubs 5 month draw. Basically for every �40 ticket sold you would keep �20. We made over �2k doing this.

Again I know its none of my business but I hope this works out for you all and any questions you may have feel free to ask.

**deise deserter** · 20/05/2003, 10:31 AM

Countyman:

Thanks for contributing, and don't worry no-one here will bite your nose off!!

I think that we should lean more towards the Official side of the debate - our problem is a lack of trust and working relationship with the club. I believe direct involvement through a one-person link would be the best way to foster trust between board and fans. Sometimes it seems to me that we are at loggerheads with the club, but really we are all working for the same goal - to make our club as good as it possibly can be. If we retain too much independance from the club we will only retain this mistaken impression of a group of agitators.

Countyman: As you have a year undre your belt, I wonder if you could mail me any ideas etc for fundraising, organisation, etc, just to help us get an idea where we need to be working to and how we will do it. Thanks.

**LFC in Exile** · 20/05/2003, 10:35 AM

All your points are fair enough and the post from Countyman is really interesting. We're playing Kildare on the 12th June (?) - could be a good man to meet.

Maybe we are going down a rathole here - and debating stuff best left to a meeting to get all views. I think a meeting after the Galway game would be very useful. We can work on an agenda beforehand to make sure we don't just end up spouting on about how bad Frankie is etc. Also, I will have to get home at some stage so it can't go on too late.....

**sadloserkid** · 20/05/2003, 10:42 AM

Grand so. I'll get onto some of the non-internet crowd and tell them and we'll take it from there. A meeting after the Galway game sounds good though.

**gael353** · 20/05/2003, 2:19 PM

ill be there just make sure that cute bar girl is there and we're sorted! my god commign to web cafeshas its advantages, just met a stunner! he he. come on trev sorr i meant to say come on the blues!!!

**deise deserter** · 20/05/2003, 6:56 PM

A great debate guys, and it is great to get something out of it. I really do believe we need to have a member of the SC Committee sitting in with the Club Board. As it stands there stills seems to be a strong element of mistrust between fans and committee. I believe that this would be a good way to get everyone onside and re-build some bridges.

Am I to take it the meeting will be on in the clubhouse straight after the game?

**gael353** · 20/05/2003, 7:43 PM

own up deise whos is it? is it big? does it satisfy you? we dont have a board we have a committee. come on the blues bring something down from the Harps game. 10 years ago a skilfull Limerick team went to Ballybofay and beat the harps 3-0 in an FAI cup replay. that was big sams team, set pieces set pieces set peices. They play a 4 4 2 with one very big holding midfielder. full backs are very attack minded so who we play one the wings will have to puch them back. we have a chance of point(s) so go for it. come on ye blues.

**Nempton** · 21/05/2003, 5:08 PM

I think its great that finally we are going to meet up and get the SC up and running. The one good thing about meeting up at the match is that for those who are not posters it will be easy to get in contact with them at the match and inform them of whats happening. I agree with what you say LFC in Exile, that we should discuss with everyone who is interested, the best way to get the club up and running. There are two things to take into consideration though 1st that the committee will probably be present at this meeting because it is in the club house so we can show them how serious and organised we are which leads to my second point, we all have different opinions about what should be done and the meeting could easily end up as a farce with everyone talking over each other, I think therefore that SLK should chair this meeting because you know most fans, have experience in this kind of situation and can remain unbiased. I think it is important that we conduct ourselves in such a manner that we do not embarrass ourselves and the idea of a SC.

Also the idea of being a official SC, at the moment my opinion is that we should remain independent of the club. I think it is easy to improve relationships with the club and achieve what the Kildare SC has without being official. As for holding a seat on the committee while it would be nice in one respect I don't go along with the idea that one person from the SC should have that privilege but rather two. However I don't think it will be possible for us to achieve that nor do I think that it is necessary. Next season the club will have to have a media officer and whoever that is, one of their duties should be to meet up with representatives of the SC and keep us aware of what is going on. I think we can hold the club accountable for a lot of their actions if we become organised. I think the committee and few fans fail to realise how important we are to the club. We serve as a means of income to the club and if we can get 100 people to join the SC then we are in a strong position. If the club fails to keep promises that they make to us, for example, a meeting on the club licence and fail to do so, then we are in a position where we can say we will boycott matches until they do. I think this tactic would be best kept for a last resort (and a tactic not to be abused either may I add) but I just wanted to show what an organised SC is capable of doing. We will also be in a position to help promote and raise finances for the club. As they say in politics, a government is only as good/strong as its opposition.

**deise deserter** · 21/05/2003, 9:56 PM

Originally posted by gael353
own up deise whos is it? is it big? does it satisfy you? we dont have a board we have a committee. come on the blues bring something down from the Harps game. 10 years ago a skilfull Limerick team went to Ballybofay and beat the harps 3-0 in an FAI cup replay. that was big sams team, set pieces set pieces set peices. They play a 4 4 2 with one very big holding midfielder. full backs are very attack minded so who we play one the wings will have to puch them back. we have a chance of point(s) so go for it. come on ye blues.

A literate and wise post as usual Gael.

However, instead of me making fun of your B.A. education, I think it woulds be much better to reference back to my earlier post - you know, the "c*ck-sucking" one.

What problem do you have with trying to work with the Club Committee? Do you think he SC should just act the pr*ck, and therefore be ignored by the club? We could go down that route and we will still be in as bad a position next year as we are now. If we can work with - not in - the Committee, we could actually see some effective change for all fans involved with Limerick F.C., as opposed to crusading to level your personal grudges.

(.. bloody Clare people...